Author Topic: Infant baptism  (Read 3572 times)

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Hal

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Infant baptism
« on: June 10, 2013, 11:46:59 PM »
Infant baptism is taught by both Catholics and Protestants denominations yet I can find not one case of infant baptism in the Bible.

How does your church handle infant baptism? How is this doctrine justified through the Scriptures?


Thanks Hal

John 8:32

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Re: Infant baptism
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2013, 05:18:08 AM »
Act 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

How does an infant repent of sin?  They do not even know what sin is.  Furthermore...

Luk 14:28  For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Luk 14:29  Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Luk 14:30  Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
Luk 14:31  Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
Luk 14:32  Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
Luk 14:33  So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

Becoming a Christian involves counting the cost and being willing to forsake all to follow Him.  Can an infant make such decisions?  Can a twelve year old?

Baptism is for adults and is a personal decision that your parents cannot make for you.

Hal

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Re: Infant baptism
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2013, 08:36:48 AM »
Act 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Good choice of verses.

I like to use :
Quote
Acts 8:36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, "See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?" 37 Then Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

The trouble is that to be honest vs 37 was not in the original text.

We recall that Christ was not baptized as an infant, He was circumcised as an infant and baptized as an adult.

JB Horn

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Re: Infant baptism
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2013, 12:29:33 PM »
Good choice of verses.

I like to use :
The trouble is that to be honest vs 37 was not in the original text.

We recall that Christ was not baptized as an infant, He was circumcised as an infant and baptized as an adult.

Good for the KJ only crowd anyway  8)

Dandi

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Re: Infant baptism
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2013, 01:48:38 PM »
Some church leaders have claimed that infants should be baptized to cleanse them from inherited sin and to protect them from being damned if they die.  However, it is noteworthy that the apostle John indicated that it is actually the blood of Jesus that cleanses people from sin (1 John 1:7).  People must exercise faith in Jesus to benefit from his sacrificial death (John 3:16).  Since baptism itself does not cleanse a person from sin and infants cannot exercise faith in Jesus' sacrifice, the scriptures do not show it to be proper to baptize infants.

Also, the scriptures show that infants who are raised by at least one faithful, Christian parent have the merit of that parent extended to them until they are mature enough to reason on their own and make a personal decision whether or not to become baptized Christians (1 Corinthians 7:14).  Not that the infant would be viewed by God as a dedicated servant, though.  The merit comes from the fact that they would be trained by the faithful, Christian parent, and that training could lead them to make a voluntary dedication to God when they are mature enough to understand.  Here again, this would not be in scriptural support of infant baptism.

Another interesting point is that I recall reading an article about how some adults who wanted to become baptized Catholics in France had to complete prebaptism classes.  One person who apparently coordinated such prebaptism classes said that preparation for adult baptism could take up to three years, and that just believing  in God was not enough, but they had to learn to live acceptably.  Strange, then, that it would be deemed necessary to put adults though a more strenuous process based on understanding and exercising faith before qualifying for baptism, yet infants who have no understanding or faith are also baptized as Catholics.

Hal

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Re: Infant baptism
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2013, 02:45:10 PM »
Dandi,

You make some extremely good points here and I can find nowhere where I could disagree with you. Your comment about Catholic baptism makes one think that there must be a purpose to their infant baptism other than what they claim.


calluna

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Re: Infant baptism
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2013, 08:17:14 AM »
Dandi,

You make some extremely good points here and I can find nowhere where I could disagree with you. Your comment about Catholic baptism makes one think that there must be a purpose to their infant baptism other than what they claim.

If there is a religion that cannot ever be catholic, i.e. universal, it is the faith of Christ. Because Jesus said that everyone is called to follow him, but few would actually do so. So, whoever claims Christianity to be a volkskirche, thereby identifying populace with church, cannot be speaking the truth, cannot even know who Jesus was.

And the likelihood that a whole continent of people will willingly give assent to the same religious belief, whatever it may be, is too improbable to be taken seriously. Europe became Catholic because to be otherwise in Europe was to be persecuted, to banishment or death. Europe became 'Christian' so that it would never become Christian, even in part. The good is the enemy of the best, and the good, in this case, was all on the surface, mere whitewash hiding a sepulchre of corrupt rulers and rules.

That is the background to Catholic water baptism. Infant baptism was one of the means by which Christianity was suppressed, not propagated. In apostolic times, water baptism was the means of making public show of one's faith. So when Peter told the people of Jerusalem, "Repent and be baptised, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins," he meant that if their sins were to be forgiven, they must not only believe, but they must show that they believed, and were willing to be persecuted for following Christ. Paul echoed him in Romans 10:9:

'If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.'

Both of them confirmed the words of Jesus:

"I tell you, whoever acknowledges me before men, the Son of Man will also acknowledge him before the angels of God. But he who disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God." Lk 12:8-9 NIV

The worldly are very far from this, as can be imagined, and as indeed they must be. Later, Peter wrote that false teachers 'will secretly introduce destructive heresies' (2Pe 2:1 NIV), and that 'many' would follow them. One of these tall tales was that water baptism, rather than being a consequence of conversion, effects conversion; that one becomes a Christian by being wetted. A preposterous notion, but the fear of Christ drives evil men to apparent insanity. And if getting wet would get an adult or child to be in Christ, why not infants, who could not argue about it? And so, the world became Christian, because merely to be born was to be Christian. So there was no sanctification, no real opposition to the progress of evil people in their wrongdoing, no 'salt of the earth'. While there was no sanctification as experienced by those in Christ, there was, for the typical baptised, social pressure via priest, family and villagers that produced a limited sort of morality. This was called the value of 'Christendom', and was undeniably useful for helping to keep a sort of social order in undemocratic states. But Paul wrote about the rules of this sort of religion having   

'An appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.' Col 2:23 NIV

The Reformation of course brought about the realisation that all this religion was just as Peter and Paul had prophesied, and that infant baptism was nugatory and invalid. In time, the number of 'cradle Catholics' fell, and the Vatican was competing for new members, along with others. There was criticism from Protestants that the recruitment of adult members was too easy, making Catholicism a 'cheap' belief. So this process was made more difficult, and prospective Catholics were to be catechised with much greater thoroughness. So Catholicism now looks more credible, in one sense; but the contrast between the requirements for 'trained' adult converts and the infant baptised looks even greater. Today, because social pressures are far lower, cradle Catholics are often wildly un-Catholic, as far as beliefs go. You can be a Catholic and claim to be Buddhist, or even atheist, also; and nobody will stop you. That alone tells the observer how valuable water baptism is, outside the authentic apostolic practice.

Fat

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Re: Infant baptism
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2013, 10:21:43 AM »
Calluna

They have developed a new law for the new Pharisees.. It's all about power as it was in Christ days.

No one will be saved by religion.

Jack Koons

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Re: Infant baptism
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2013, 10:02:40 AM »
Hello Hal,

First of all, I do not support infant baptism, because I see nowhere in the Bible where God supports infant baptism.

However you stated, "The trouble is that to be honest vs 37 was not in the original text." Wow, I have been told for many years that the 'originals' have been gone for years. How did you get your hands on an 'original', so that you could make that kind of an 'authoritative' statement?

Jack

Hal

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Re: Infant baptism
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2013, 10:48:32 AM »
Howdy Jack

It is certainly true that the manuscripts we have are copies of copies and there is a controversy if the verse was deliberately omitted in early manuscripts or correctly translated in later manuscripts.

Not really worth arguing about in my mind but it is not worth using a controversial verse in the doctrine debate be cause you end up getting side tract on defending it. I feel that the new translations are right in treating vs 37 as they do. The verse is confirmed by other passages of the Bible, it's not worth the headache.


macuser

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Re: Infant Baptism Is Unbiblical - John MacArthur
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2013, 07:05:31 PM »
Infant Baptism Is Unbiblical - John MacArthur


Theodore A. Jones

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Re: Infant baptism
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2013, 07:58:29 AM »
Infant baptism is taught by both Catholics and Protestants denominations yet I can find not one case of infant baptism in the Bible.

How does your church handle infant baptism? How is this doctrine justified through the Scriptures?


Thanks Hal

According to the encyclopedia of "Religion" infant baptism was a religious practice that originated in ancient Egypt.
According to the Bible God is recorded saying "Do not practice the customs of the Egyptians." Therefore it is my opinion that the scriptures have not justified this religious practice.

macuser

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Re: Infant baptism
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2014, 04:06:05 PM »
Was Simon the magician saved by water baptism?

Act 8

Alexander Winslow

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Re: Infant baptism
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2014, 06:34:54 PM »
Just a brief note on infant Baptism in the churches of Christendom. This was completely unheard of until the Second World War when it was feared that babies and infants of Christin parents could be killed [as indeed some were] during the bombing raids by Germany.

Not understanding the real truth of the Bible and God's provision of the 'second chance' for 'all' mankind, it was therefore decided that all infants would be baptized at birth so that if they were killed; they would then go to heaven.

Even the word Amen was added to many things for the same reason.

Alexander

Moss

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Re: Infant baptism
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2015, 12:01:01 AM »

Another interesting point is that I recall reading an article about how some adults who wanted to become baptized Catholics in France had to complete prebaptism classes.  One person who apparently coordinated such prebaptism classes said that preparation for adult baptism could take up to three years, and that just believing  in God was not enough, but they had to learn to live acceptably.  Strange, then, that it would be deemed necessary to put adults though a more strenuous process based on understanding and exercising faith before qualifying for baptism, yet infants who have no understanding or faith are also baptized as Catholics.

Many protestant require that you attend classes and join the church before they will baptize you. I have never heard of lasting 3 years, more like 3 hours. NOT BIBLICAL!!!!