Author Topic: The Millennium And The Second Coming  (Read 3927 times)

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Bob

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The Millennium And The Second Coming
« on: July 26, 2013, 07:11:03 PM »
The Millennium

Revelation 20: 1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years ; 3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed ; after these things he must be released for a short time. 4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand ; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. (NAS)


1. Premillennialism -Christ returning to earth before, to usher in a physical millennium

2. Postmillennialism -Christ returning to earth after, at the close of, a physical millennium

3. Amillennialism -Christ returning after, at the close of a spiritual, symbolic millennium -"a" or "no" physical millennium

Zant Law

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Re: The Millennium And The Second Coming
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2013, 09:01:27 AM »
The thousand years which is mentioned in this passage corresponds to Christ’s literal 1000-year reign on the earth. Premillennialism sees this passage as describing the future fulfillment of that promise with Christ on the throne. God made unconditional covenants with both Abraham and David. Neither of these covenants has been fully or permanently fulfilled. A literal, physical rule of Christ is the only way the covenants can be fulfilled as God promised.


JB Horn

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Re: The Millennium And The Second Coming
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2013, 10:55:41 PM »
The thousand years which is mentioned in this passage corresponds to Christ’s literal 1000-year reign on the earth. Premillennialism sees this passage as describing the future fulfillment of that promise with Christ on the throne. God made unconditional covenants with both Abraham and David. Neither of these covenants has been fully or permanently fulfilled. A literal, physical rule of Christ is the only way the covenants can be fulfilled as God promised.

I agree that God does not make abstract promises in the form of a covenant. He may made prophecy that is abstract like we find in Revelations, but not a covenant.

petrobb

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Re: The Millennium And The Second Coming
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2015, 12:17:45 PM »
The thousand years which is mentioned in this passage corresponds to Christ’s literal 1000-year reign on the earth. Premillennialism sees this passage as describing the future fulfillment of that promise with Christ on the throne. God made unconditional covenants with both Abraham and David. Neither of these covenants has been fully or permanently fulfilled. A literal, physical rule of Christ is the only way the covenants can be fulfilled as God promised.

That is not so :) The promises to David have been fulfilled in Jesus Christ. The promises to Abraham will be fulfilled in the new heaven and the new earth as Heb 11.10-16 makes clear.

Zant Law

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Re: The Millennium And The Second Coming
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2015, 05:01:46 PM »
That is not so :) The promises to David have been fulfilled in Jesus Christ. The promises to Abraham will be fulfilled in the new heaven and the new earth as Heb 11.10-16 makes clear.

Gen 13:15.  for all the land which you see, I will give it to you and to your descendants forever.

petrobb

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Re: The Millennium And The Second Coming
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2015, 07:02:28 AM »
Quote
Valiant - That is not so :) The promises to David have been fulfilled in Jesus Christ. The promises to Abraham will be fulfilled in the new heaven and the new earth as Heb 11.10-16 makes clear.


Quote
Zant Law - Gen 13:15.  for all the land which you see, I will give it to you and to your descendants forever.

Precisely if it is to be forever then it could only be in the eternal kingdom, not on this earth.

Zant Law

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Re: The Millennium And The Second Coming
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2015, 07:28:24 AM »

Precisely if it is to be forever then it could only be in the eternal kingdom, not on this earth.

 Clarify please, are you saying the millennium will come after forever or before forever? Or are you saying that Christ will not reign over the millennium?


Fat

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Re: The Millennium And The Second Coming
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2015, 08:14:03 AM »
Clarify please, are you saying the millennium will come after forever or before forever? Or are you saying that Christ will not reign over the millennium?

Law, think replacement theology.

petrobb

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Re: The Millennium And The Second Coming
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2015, 06:07:34 AM »
Clarify please, are you saying the millennium will come after forever or before forever? Or are you saying that Christ will not reign over the millennium?

The millennium is NOW.  'a thousand years' was just a Jewish way of saying a  long undetermined period of time. The SOULS of the saints are living and reigning with Christ, having been raised with Him in His resurrection (the first resurrection).

There will be no future millennium on earth. Neither Jesus nor Paul nor Peter had any conception of such an idea.

Zant Law

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Re: The Millennium And The Second Coming
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2015, 06:42:59 AM »
The millennium is NOW.  'a thousand years' was just a Jewish way of saying a  long undetermined period of time. The SOULS of the saints are living and reigning with Christ, having been raised with Him in His resurrection (the first resurrection).

There will be no future millennium on earth. Neither Jesus nor Paul nor Peter had any conception of such an idea.
“Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.”
Revelation‬ 20:4‬ NASB‬‬

So the tribulation has come and gone?

petrobb

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Re: The Millennium And The Second Coming
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2015, 10:57:43 AM »
“Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.”
Revelation‬ 20:4‬ NASB‬‬

So the tribulation has come and gone?

If you mean the fantasy Great Tribulation at the end of the age which is unbiblical it will not even come. Certainly the church always has, and will continue to experience tribulation.

Those beheaded for Jesus sake, and those who had not received the mark of the Beast existed in 1st century AD. Their SOULS have been living and reigning with Christ ever since. They have been joined by others through the centuries.

Fat

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Re: The Millennium And The Second Coming
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2015, 01:48:07 PM »
If you mean the fantasy Great Tribulation at the end of the age which is unbiblical it will not even come. Certainly the church always has, and will continue to experience tribulation.

Those beheaded for Jesus sake, and those who had not received the mark of the Beast existed in 1st century AD. Their SOULS have been living and reigning with Christ ever since. They have been joined by others through the centuries.


Matt 24

14.  "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

15.  "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place ( let the reader understand),

16.  then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.   

17.  "Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house.

18.  "Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.           

19.  "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!

20.  "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.               

21.  "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.

22.  "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.       

23.  "Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him.

24.  "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.                                               

25.  "Behold, I have told you in advance.

26.  "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them. 

27.  "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.           

Zant Law

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Re: The Millennium And The Second Coming
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2015, 04:55:46 PM »
Yep
The bible is unbiblical, I always knew it👮🏼

petrobb

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Re: The Millennium And The Second Coming
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2015, 03:33:12 AM »

Matt 24

14.  "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

15.  "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place ( let the reader understand),

16.  then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.   

17.  "Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house.

18.  "Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.           

19.  "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!

20.  "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.               

21.  "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.

22.  "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.       

23.  "Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him.

24.  "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.                                               

25.  "Behold, I have told you in advance.

26.  "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them. 

27.  "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.           

Yes the abomination of desolation occurred when the Romans took their standards with their idolatrous images into the Temple in 70 AD. Then began the Great tribulation of the Jews which has been going on ever since. It is still occurring today. It included the Inquisition and the Holocaust. Nothing like it will ever be seen again.

That this is what Jesus is referring to comes out in that He had to answer the question as to when the stones of the temple building they were looking at would be torn down. His reply was that it was when the Abomination of Desolation occurred. The parallel passage in Luke leaves no doubt as to what He was referring to:

Luk 21:20  But when ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand.
Luk 21:21  Then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains; and let them that are in the midst of her depart out; and let not them that are in the country enter therein.
Luk 21:22  For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23  Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
Luk 21:24  And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led captive into all the nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.


The period of great tribulation lasts from 70 AD to the time when the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

 

petrobb

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Re: The Millennium And The Second Coming
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2015, 03:43:34 AM »
Yep
The bible is unbiblical, I always knew it👮🏼

only because you interpret it wrongly. :)  It is quite clear really until you try to fit strange interpretations of Daniel into it.

Rev 20 was a new vision. Revelation is composed of a number of visions each ending with the second coming.  chapter 20 is a recap of what has gone before. The release of Satan, the king of the angels in Rev 9.11. The triumph of the overcomers. The final judgment.