Author Topic: The Soul and the Spirit  (Read 8202 times)

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Alexander Winslow

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Re: The Soul and the Spirit
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2014, 05:24:10 PM »
Hello Macuser,

Neither does Almighty God, Jesus, the Apostles nor any of the first century Christians. The Trinity teaches 'equality' and was introduced by Satan in the Garden of Eden, while God's inspired word teaches 'balance' without which creation would fall apart.

If the Trinity was correct, we would all be under Satan now because it states that Jesus was Almighty God incarnate and therefore if he had died at Golgotha; Satan would have taken over immediately. In accepting the Trinity, you are actually accepting the teaching of Babylon the Great; the world Empire of false Religion. (Revelation 17:5)

You have evidently become entangled with the false teachings of Christendom without checking the scriptures themselves. If Jesus and Almighty God were equal, then Almighty God could no longer be 'Almighty' which means without equal. Common sense reasoning.

The Trinity is the foundation doctrine of Christendom while the 'Ransom' is the foundation doctrine of the Bible.

Jesus was created while God was not; Jesus is a creation while Almighty God is a being so therefore immediately Jesus becomes inferior to Almighty God which he personally confirms: ""...I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I." (John 14:28) "Most truly I say to you, the Son cannot do anything of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing." (John 5:19)

So much for the Trinity!

Not only does Christendom not translate John 1:1 properly, it is seen that they have been randomly translating the terms ‘ho theos’ and ‘ton theon’. For example lets take a look at 2 Corinthians 4:4.
In that verse ‘ho theos’ is translated as ‘the god’ with a small ‘g’ to refer to Satan. In the same verse ‘ton theon’ is translated as ‘God’. This is a clear ‘pick and choose’ tactic being practiced by Christendom.

The Christian world is trying hard to cover up the correct wordings of this verse.

Note (5th March 2006): The “New World Translation” by the “Jehovah’s Witnesses” has also translated this verse as it ought to be translated.
In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.
                                                                                     Ebrahim Saifuddin — March 3, 2007
Alexander



Alexander Winslow

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Re: The Soul and the Spirit
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2014, 05:33:36 PM »
Hello Zant Law, actually I have answered your question correctly and specifically; you just do not seem to understand it!

Almighty God is the provider of salvation and this is accomplished by the instrument of salvation Christ Jesus who by his corresponding 'ransom' at Golgotha has achieved salvation for the whole of the human race and the Jews who without the way he died; could never be released from the curse of the law as confirmed by the Apostle Paul. Jesus has also by this same sacrifice, opened the way to the opportunity of everlasting life on earth for all who stand against Satan at the end of Christ's thousand year reign; in other words salvation!

Alexander

Alexander Winslow

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Re: The Soul and the Spirit
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2014, 05:51:18 PM »
Hello fat,

No I am certainly not running from the Bible which is the only foundation we have for God's inspired word.

The English word 'repent' means to change one's mind with regard to the past for what one has done or omitted to do.

Repentance alters a person's course, it does not bring salvation; because that same person can easily alter course again! Just as it did with Judas Iscariot!

John the Baptist declared: "Repent, for the kingdom of the heavens has drawn near." (Matthew 3:2)

He was of course referring to the Messiah who at his arrival also called for repentance by all who belonged to Israel. They had turned away from God and were no longer under his Divine hand. So Jesus now called for those who would listen, to change course and accept the offer being held out to them, to become part of his "little flock" with the hope of immortality in the heavens as the living kingdom of God.

This offer to the House of Israel was to continue for the prophesied week of years [seven years] after which, the offer went out to the Gentile nations in 36 CE.

So yes, repentance simply means to change course; it has nothing to do directly with salvation!

Alexander





Fat

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Re: The Soul and the Spirit
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2014, 06:47:05 PM »
Hello fat,

No I am certainly not running from the Bible which is the only foundation we have for God's inspired word.

The English word 'repent' means to change one's mind with regard to the past for what one has done or omitted to do.

Repentance alters a person's course, it does not bring salvation; because that same person can easily alter course again! Just as it did with Judas Iscariot!

John the Baptist declared: "Repent, for the kingdom of the heavens has drawn near." (Matthew 3:2)

He was of course referring to the Messiah who at his arrival also called for repentance by all who belonged to Israel. They had turned away from God and were no longer under his Divine hand. So Jesus now called for those who would listen, to change course and accept the offer being held out to them, to become part of his "little flock" with the hope of immortality in the heavens as the living kingdom of God.

This offer to the House of Israel was to continue for the prophesied week of years [seven years] after which, the offer went out to the Gentile nations in 36 CE.

So yes, repentance simply means to change course; it has nothing to do directly with salvation!

Alexander






You are correct in the meaning of repentance.

If for a moment you believe that you can be born again (saved) and not change your course you have been terribly mislead. You must follow Christ if you are of His (any size) flock.

 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them , I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity (Jesus Christ 0000)


Quote from: Alex
He was of course referring to the Messiah who at his arrival also called for repentance by all who belonged to Israel. They had turned away from God and were no longer under his Divine hand. So Jesus now called for those who would listen, to change course and accept the offer being held out to them, to become part of his "little flock" with the hope of immortality in the heavens as the living kingdom of God.

Replacement theology is not Biblical.
Do you claim that God has defaulted on His promise to Abraham?
Who is God referring to in Joel 3?



There is a rule for this baord that if asked you must back all you claim with biblical references. (http://biblediscussion.org/index.php/topic,604.0.html) I am making that plea to you now.



Alexander Winslow

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Re: The Soul and the Spirit
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2014, 06:22:46 PM »
Hallo Fat,

Thank you again for your comments, yes, I do understand the rule of the board and as it happens this was the primary teaching of the Oxford Course; without scriptural authority the words mean nothing!

I am rather puzzled why you are making this plea, because every word I speak is confirmed in scripture; it is just that sometimes for simplicity it is beneficial to give the reasoning behind a comment or issue but the scriptures are always there to back it up.

For instance, your comment: “If for a moment you believe that you can be born again (saved) and not change your course you have been terribly mislead. You must follow Christ if you are of His (any size) flock.

 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.”

You seem to be a little mixed up here, the only way one can be born again is to be raised up after death as an immortal spirit creature in the same manner as Christ Jesus. Just as the Apostle Paul states: “…this which is mortal must put on immortality (1 Corinthians 15:53)

Now the only way one can do this is to be ‘born again’ as an immortal spirit creature and inherit the kingdom of heaven, because these ‘chosen’ ones have been tried and tested to the limit; they therefore have received not only salvation but their status as kings and priests with Christ Jesus. (Revelation 20:6)

You are quoting the scriptures but failing to define the status of those to whom they apply. This is not replacement theology, this was prophesied in Genesis 3:15 the first prophecy in the Bible and the foundation of all that has followed.

God has certainly not defaulted in his promise to Abraham, but it does seem that you like the Jews, have misunderstood it. God’s promise to Abraham in Genesis 22:18 is indeed speaking of the ‘seed’ by means of which all nations of the earth will be blessed at the appointed time.

This ‘seed’ however, is not the ‘seed’ of natural Israel which is already imperfect and defective; the Apostle Paul corrected the Jews who thought this by stating: “Therefore only if you are of the Anointed, are you actually Abraham’s seed, heirs and instrument of the promise.” (Galatians 3:29) NMTCS

He also stated that today, a Jew is not one who is circumcised in the flesh on the outside, but one who is circumcised in the heart on the inside. (Romans 2:28, 29)

In this Paul was confirming that it was to be the heavenly Israel of God and not natural Israel who was to receive this privilege, even though some of the first of the ‘chosen’ were like the Apostles and those at Pentecost and the three thousand which were added later; all of the natural House of Israel in keeping with Covenant which was to be reserved for them for one week of years. (Daniel 9:27)

It was on this special group at Pentecost that God’s spirit was poured out by the ascended Christ and they began prophesying, while each one in the crowd heard the words in his own tongue.  (Joel 2:28, 29)

Alexander

Fat

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Re: The Soul and the Spirit
« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2014, 08:53:32 PM »
You seem to be a little mixed up here, the only way one can be born again is to be raised up after death as an immortal spirit creature in the same manner as Christ Jesus.

Not exactly what the Scriptures teach.

1 Peter 4:6 NAS
For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God.

Romans 8:10 NAS
If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Alex I understand now that you are writing your own translation of the bible, and your writings (PDF files on your web site) make it clear that you have a problem with understanding the most simple verses. I do wish you the best in your endeavors but choose not to be involved in any debates with you.

Jhon 17:14 "I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 "I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. 16 "They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 "Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. 18 "As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 "For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth. 20 "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.


God speed.
Fat

Alexander Winslow

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Re: The Soul and the Spirit
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2014, 05:13:06 PM »
Thank you Fat,

I understand, but the scriptures which you are quoting are actually out of context; you are referring them to the wrong people.

Alexander

Fat

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Re: The Soul and the Spirit
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2014, 11:31:30 PM »
Thank you Fat,

I understand, but the scriptures which you are quoting are actually out of context; you are referring them to the wrong people.

Alexander

IN CONTEXT

1 Peter 4:1Therefore, since Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same purpose, because he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, 2 so as to live the rest of the time in the flesh no longer for the lusts of men, but for the will of God. 3 For the time already past is sufficient for you to have carried out the desire of the Gentiles, having pursued a course of sensuality, lusts, drunkenness, carousing, drinking parties and abominable idolatries. 4 In all this, they are surprised that you do not run with them into the same excesses of dissipation, and they malign you; 5 but they will give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6 For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God. 7 The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer. 8 Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins. 9 Be hospitable to one another without complaint. 10 As each one has received a special gift, employ it in serving one another as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. 11 Whoever speaks, is to do so as one who is speaking the utterances of God; whoever serves is to do so as one who is serving by the strength which God supplies; so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

You seem not to understand what the death spoken of is referring to.

Quote
The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon
 Strong's Number:   3498    
Original Word   Word Origin
nekroß   from an apparently primary nekus (a corpse)
Transliterated Word   TDNT Entry
Nekros   4:892,627
Phonetic Spelling   Parts of Speech
nek-ros'        Adjective
 Definition
properly
one that has breathed his last, lifeless
deceased, departed, one whose soul is in heaven or hell
destitute of life, without life, inanimate
metaph.
spiritually dead
destitute of a life that recognises and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins
inactive as respects doing right
destitute of force or power, inactive, inoperative
 

Your home made bible and theology is flawed.

Alexander Winslow

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Re: The Soul and the Spirit
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2014, 06:16:09 PM »
Fat,

No, I do not use a 'home-made' Bible; in fact I use more than one translation according to the situation.

You seem to be a little confused regarding the resurrection of which there is actually two. The first one which Paul describes as the first-fruits which were foreshadowed by the original offerings by the Jews while they were under God's hand, applies only to the anointed heavenly 'little flock' who are the 'chosen' Israel of God and will rule for a thousand years over the rest of resurrected ma kind. (Revelation 20:6)

The 'second' resurrection takes place during this thousand year reign and includes everyone who has ever lived since Adam. The Apostle Paul confirms this when he informs us that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous. (Acts 24:15)

Now as for the understanding of death, those of the chosen ''anointed, like the Apostles Paul, remained 'dead' in God's eyes until they were chosen; when they became alive in God's eyes in readiness for their heavenly 'born again' position.

The rest of mankind however, remain 'dead' in God's eyes until the end of the thousand year reign of the Christ, when providing they hold their stand against Satan; will then become declared 'alive' in God's eyes.
“…And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years. 5 This is the first resurrection. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the end of the thousand years.” [This is the second resurrection (Acts 24:15)] (Revelation 20:4, 5 ) NMTCS

So here we have the Bible's word and not mine, that the rest of the 'dead' outside of the anointed heavenly 'little flock' do not come to life until all is complete.

No 'flaw' here, just straight scripture.

Alexander

 



 

Fat

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Re: The Soul and the Spirit
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2014, 06:59:43 PM »

Acts 24:15
Yes Alex, the dead will be resurrected and the wicked of them shall spend eternity in Hell, no annihilation Alex, eternal punishment.

Alexander Winslow

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Re: The Soul and the Spirit
« Reply #40 on: August 16, 2014, 06:13:33 PM »
Hello Fat,

Still writing your own Bible I see!

The point of the resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous is that 'all' mankind will be given a second chance to receive everlasting life on earth as perfect humans, providing they stand against Satan when he is let loose for the last time after his incarceration during the thousand year reign of the Christ. (Revelation 20:1-10)

If as you suggest, that the unrighteous are resurrected just to be condemned; then there would be no point in their resurrection and no point of the judgement period of the Christ which is specifically designed to determine who will and who will not receive either life or death!

This was demonstrated plainly by Jesus in his parable of the wheat and the weeds, showing that just as they were all allowed to grow together until the harvest and then be separated; so all resurrected mankind will be allowed to grow together during the thousand year reign of the Christ as they are all brought up to perfection and then judged accordingly after Satan is released.

This is actually the whole point of God's will and purpose, the provision of the anointed Jesus and his sacrifice which was to cancel Adamic death and open up the way to the resurrection and the opportunity of everlasting life on earth as originally intended.

Yes, those who do follow Satan during this period and the Bible tells us that their number will be as numerous as the grains of sand on the beach; will be annihilated by the 'second' death [Gehenna] (Revelation 21:8)
as foreshadowed by the Valley of Hinnom outside Jerusalem where the incinerator fire burned continually.

Alexander

Fat

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Re: The Soul and the Spirit
« Reply #41 on: August 16, 2014, 11:16:04 PM »
John 5:28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.


If as you suggest, that the unrighteous are resurrected just to be condemned; then there would be no point in their resurrection and no point of the judgement period of the Christ which is specifically designed to determine who will and who will not receive either life or death!

What follows judgement? Is it back to the grave? Why the resurrection just to return them? However if the judgement leads to eternal fire then all of a sudden the scriptures are in harmony.

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.

The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon
 Strong's Number:   166    
Original Word   Word Origin
aionioß   from (165)
Transliterated Word   TDNT Entry
Aionios   1:208,31
Phonetic Spelling   Parts of Speech
ahee-o'-nee-os        Adjective
 Definition
without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
without beginning
without end, never to cease, everlasting
 

Alexander Winslow

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Re: The Soul and the Spirit
« Reply #42 on: August 17, 2014, 07:20:43 AM »
Thank you for your comments Fat, unfortunately like the churches of Christendom you misunderstand the application of the word 'judgement'; you are applying it in the sense that those who have committed evil deeds are already condemned. Judgement on the other hand, is like when one goes to court and everything has to be taken into consideration.

Now in the case of the Bible, all mankind still remains dead in God's eyes due to our imperfection and therefore under the sentence of judgement since the episode in Eden. (Matthew 8:22) Those not under judgement today are those of the 'little flock' chosen by Jesus and who have been already declared righteous in God's eyes as the Apostle Paul informs us. (Romans 6:10, 11; Romans 8:15)

Therefore the resurrection to judgement informs us that as Almighty God will judge imperfect mankind by his own perfect law, because to do this we would all have to be destroyed; he has provided a period of a thousand years which is the 'last' 1,000 year day referred to by Martha  in her reply to Jesus (John 11:24) during which all mankind will be resurrected both the righteous and the unrighteous and after being brought up to human perfection, Satan will once more be let loose for a short period and those who remain faithful to God will then receive everlasting life on the earth.

The punishment for disobedience is 'death', (Genesis 2:16, 17) this has never altered; so when the scriptures speak of eternal punishment it is referring to eternal death. Unlike Adolph Hitler and the third Reich, Gos is a Gos of love and therefore would never commit anyone to eternal punishment in the way you and the churches state; after all, to suffer eternal torment in this way, one would have to be 'immortal' which rather defeats the purpose!

Another point we might care to take into consideration, is that if man had an immortal soul as the churches state; then there would never have been any need for Christ because on death man would have gone somewhere else.

Yet Almighty Gos actually states: “Behold, all souls are Mine. As the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is Mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.” (Ezekiel 18:4) 21st Century King James Version (KJ21) “His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.” (Psalm 146:4) King James Version (KJV) [King James I of England 1611 A.D.] 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)

So there we are, God himself declares that there is no such thing as an immortal soul because on death, one's thoughts perish immediately!

Alexander














Fat

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Re: The Soul and the Spirit
« Reply #43 on: August 17, 2014, 08:11:10 AM »

The punishment for disobedience is 'death', (Genesis 2:16, 17) this has never altered; so when the scriptures speak of eternal punishment it is referring to eternal death. Unlike Adolph Hitler and the third Reich, Gos is a Gos of love and therefore would never commit anyone to eternal punishment in the way you and the churches state; after all, to suffer eternal torment in this way, one would have to be 'immortal' which rather defeats the purpose!

But that is not what the Scriptures say Alex  DO I HAVE TO POST THEM FOR YOU?

Quote
Another point we might care to take into consideration, is that if man had an immortal soul as the churches state; then there would never have been any need for Christ because on death man would have gone somewhere else.

The need for Christ is to provide a way for our sins to be covered from the sight of God. Do you know what the ScapeGoat represents? You must be without sin Alex, you honor us all with your presences.

Quote
So there we are, God himself declares that there is no such thing as an immortal soul because on death, one's thoughts perish immediately!

Alexander

Sorry Alex but nothing you have posted supports you conclusion.

Alexander Winslow

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Re: The Soul and the Spirit
« Reply #44 on: August 17, 2014, 09:39:17 AM »
Hello Fat,

Thank you for your comments, although you clearly do not understand the Bible.

You are mixing ancient Law with Christan Truth. You remind me of those in Jesus' day who listened but failed to get the sense of what they heard.

I have already presented you with the sense behind all of this, but you are reading the scriptures without understanding and therefore reaching erroneous conclusions.

I could not put it any plainer than I have, you are reading metaphorical terms as literal which when reasoned out makes nonsense of scripture.

Please post whatever you wish and we will go through it one by one, I did this at Oxford.

Remember, what I post here has nothing to do with my own origination, it comes straight form scriptural understanding.

For instance, your comment: "The need for Christ is to provide a way for our sins to be covered from the sight of God. Do you know what the Scape Goat represents? You must be without sin Alex, you honor us all with your presences."

To begin with, the need for Christ was to provide a corresponding ransom for Adamic sin whereby without it we would all be still under the sentence of death without the hope of a resurrection. Also, although the death of Christ would have been sufficient in any way shape or form for the Gentile nations, it had to be exactly in the manner that it was to release the Jew from the 'curse' of the Mosaic Law which condemned them every day for their imperfections.

The Apostle Paul explains this in his letter to the Hebrews, showing the by his death in the same manner as the sacrifice of the lamb down in Egypt and its blood smeared on the door posts to enable the angel of death to pass over; this was a foreshadow of the execution of the Lamb of God whose blood smeared his instrument of execution thereby releasing the Jew from the curse of the Law and mankind from Adamic death. To confirm this the Apostle Paul states: "Christ our passover has now been sacrificed." (1 Corinthians 5:7)

So toady both the Jew and the Gentile are no longer under either the condemnation of the Mosaic Law nor the condemnation of Adamic death. But except for the anointed 'little flock' chosen specially by Christ, the rest of us still remain 'dead' in God's eyes. (Matthew 8:22)

You continue: "Sorry Alex but nothing you have posted supports you conclusion."

On the contrary, so far you have produced nothing scripturally to contradict what I have presented scripturally.

For instance, you state: "You must be without sin Alex, you honor us all with your presences."

Now I do not know where you have got that one from, but John states: "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8)

So here John is informing us that while we all remain imperfect this side of Christ's thousand year reign, we will continue to remain imperfect and 'dead' in God's eyes. This is confirmed by the scripture: "The rest of the dead [mankind] did not come to life until the thousand years were ended." (Revelation 20:5)

Although we have now come under the grace of God through the ransom sacrifice of Christ Jesus, no salvation will be achieved until after the resurrection and thousand year reign of the Christ. Then at the end of this, those who prove themselves worthy will be given everlasting life on earth; while the rest of unworthy mankind will enter the 'second death' [Gehenna] Revelation 21:8

One cannot be in danger of the 'second death' until resurrected from the first death.

You have also failed to confirm what you actually believe concerning God's will and purpose for the human race.

Alexander