Author Topic: The Promise of Baptism in the Holy Spirit  (Read 22590 times)

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VCO

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Re: The Promise of Baptism in the Holy Spirit
« Reply #45 on: September 22, 2012, 06:25:35 pm »
I disagree with where you draw the Line, but I agree with where GOD draws the Line.

John 1:12 (NKJV)
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

It does not say they had to have known that HIS NAME, also became Jesus Christ, when HE chose to become incarnate.

Matthew 25:40 (NKJV)
40 And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.'

http://www.cherokeediscovery.com/ancientbeliefs.html


Remember ONLY eight People got off the Ark, and ALL of them were Believers.

1 Peter 3:19-20 (GW)
19 In it he also went to proclaim his victory to the spirits kept in prison.
20 They are like those who disobeyed long ago in the days of Noah when God waited patiently while Noah built the ship. In this ship a few people—eight in all—were saved by water.

Fat

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Re: The Promise of Baptism in the Holy Spirit
« Reply #46 on: September 22, 2012, 07:07:07 pm »
I disagree with where you draw the Line, but I agree with where GOD draws the Line.

John 1:12 (NKJV)
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

It does not say they had to have known that HIS NAME, also became Jesus Christ, when HE chose to become incarnate.

Matthew 25:40 (NKJV)
40 And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.'

http://www.cherokeediscovery.com/ancientbeliefs.html


Remember ONLY eight People got off the Ark, and ALL of them were Believers.

1 Peter 3:19-20 (GW)
19 In it he also went to proclaim his victory to the spirits kept in prison.
20 They are like those who disobeyed long ago in the days of Noah when God waited patiently while Noah built the ship. In this ship a few people—eight in all—were saved by water.

Yeah you know the Bible has a lot of good stuff in.

Quote from: God's line
2 tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not tolerate sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, will accumulate teachers for themselves because they have an itch to hear something new.

galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before , so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received , let him be accursed.

Of course that is nothing like the good stuff you found on the Internet.

biblebuf

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Re: The Promise of Baptism in the Holy Spirit
« Reply #47 on: September 22, 2012, 07:55:49 pm »
From the Cherokee Nation's official web site.

http://www.cherokee.org/AboutTheNation/Culture/General/24405/Information.aspx


In the search for order and then to sustain that order, the Cherokee of old devised a belief system that, while appearing at first to be complex, is actually quite simple. Many of the elements of the original system remain in place with traditional Cherokee today. Although some of these elements have evolved or otherwise been modified, this belief system is an integral part of day-to-day life for many.

Certain numbers play an important role in the ceremonies of the Cherokee. The numbers four and seven repeatedly occur in myths, stories and ceremonies. The number four represents all the familiar forces, also represented in the four cardinal directions. These directions are east, west, north and south. Certain colors are also associated with these directions. The number seven represents the seven clans of the Cherokee, and are also associated with directions. In addition to the four cardinal directions, three others exist. Up (the Upper World), down (the Lower World) and center (where we live and where you always are).

The number seven also represents the height of purity and sacredness, a difficult level to attain. In olden times it was believed that only the owl and cougar had attained this level and thus have always had a special meaning to the Cherokee. The pine, cedar, spruce, holly and laurel also attained this level and play a very important role in Cherokee ceremonies. Cedar is the most sacred of all, and the distinguishing colors of red and white set it off from all others. The wood from the tree is considered very sacred, and in ancient days it was used to carry the honored dead.

Because of these early beliefs, the traditional Cherokee have a special regard for the owl and cougar. They are honored in some versions of the Creation story because they were the only two animals who were able to stay awake for the seven nights of Creation, the others having fallen asleep. Today, because of this, they are nocturnal in their habits and both have exceptional night vision.

The owl is seemingly different from other birds, resembling an old man as he walks. Sometimes the owl can be mistaken for a cat because of his feather tufts and the silhouette of his head. This resemblance honors his nocturnal brother, the cougar. The owl's eyes are quite large and are set directly in front like humans, and he can close one eye independently of the other. The cougar's screams resemble those of a woman; further, he is an animal posessing secretive and  unpredictable habits.

Cedar, pine, spruce, laurel and holly trees carry leaves all year long. These plants, too, stayed awake seven nights during the Creation. Because of this they were given special power and they are among the most important plants in Cherokee medicine and ceremonies.

Traditionally the Cherokee are deeply concerned with keeping things separated and in the proper classification or category. For example, when sacred items are not in use they are wrapped in deerskin or white cloth, and kept in a special box or other place.

The circle is another symbol familiar to traditional Cherokee. The Stomp Dance and other ceremonies involve movements in a circular pattern. In ancient times, the fire in the council house was built by arranging the wood in a continuous "X" so that the fire would burn in a circular path.

The river, or "Long Man," was always believed to be sacred, and the practice of going to water for purification and other ceremonies was at one time very common. Today the river or any other body of moving water, such as a creek, is considered a sacred site and going to water is still a respected practice by some Cherokees.

The everyday cultural world of the Cherokee includes spiritual beings. Even though the beings are different from people and animals, they are not considered "supernatural", but are very much a part of the natural, real world. Most Cherokee at some point in their lives will relate having had an experience with these spiritual beings.

A group of spiritual beings still spoken of by many Cherokee is the Little People. They cannot be seen by man unless they wish it. When they allow themselves to be seen, they appear very much like any other Cherokee, except they are very small, and have long hair, sometimes reaching all the way to the ground.

The Little People live in various places; rocky shelters, caves in the mountains or laurel thickets. They like drumming and dancing and they often help children who appear to be lost. Not just those geographically lost, but children who appear saddened and confused. They are also known to be quite mischievous at times. The Little People should be dealt with carefully, and it is necessary to observe some traditional rules regarding them.

They don't like being disturbed and may cause a person who continually bothers them to become "puzzled" throughout life. Because of this, traditional Cherokees will not investigate or look when they believe they hear Little People. If one of the Little People is accidentally seen, or if he or she chooses to show himself, it is not to be discussed or told of for at least seven years. It is common practice to not speak about the Little People after nightfall.

Traditional Cherokees also believe that after a person dies, his soul often continues to live on as a ghost. Ghosts are believed to have the ability to materialize where some, but not all people, can see them.

Very basic to the Cherokee belief system is the premise that good is rewarded and evil is punished. Even though the Cherokee have a strict belief in this type of justice, there are times when things happen that the system just does not explain. It is often believed that these events are caused by someone using medicine for evil purposes.

Witchcraft among the Cherokee does not resemble that of non-Indian cultures. To understand and respect the beliefs of traditional Cherokee about using medicine, conjuring, and witchcraft you must first consider early Indian societies and consider how this has remained an integral part of Cherokee culture even up to the present day. There are ordinary witches and then there are killer witches. Ordinary witches are actually considered the more dangerous since a person can never be sure he is dealing with one and they are more difficult to counteract. They may even deceive a medicine person and cause them to prescribe the wrong cure if not they aren't careful. One killer witch still spoken of often by traditionalists today is the Raven Mocker.

Today, although many Cherokee still consult with medicine people regarding problems, both mental and physical, some will not see a medicine man for any reason and refuse to acknowledge their powers. Some believe in using both Cherokee medicine and licensed medical doctors and the health care systems.

The knowledge held by the medicine men or women is very broad. They work and study for years committing to memory the syllabary manuscripts passed on by the ones who taught them. Many formulas have been documented in Cherokee syllabary writing in books ranging from small notebooks to full-blown ledgers. If the words are not spoken or sung in the Cherokee language, they have no affect. Until the words have been memorized the medicine person may refer to his book. This does not compromise his abilities, after all; modern medical practitioners often refer back to their medical texts and other reference books as well. The writings in these traditional books are strictly guarded and anyone who is not "in training" is forbidden to study or even read the books.

The spoken words are usually accompanied by some physical procedure, such as the use of a specially prepared tobacco, or drink. Medicine people themselves must be, and remain in perfect health for their powers to be at peak. 

VCO

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Re: The Promise of Baptism in the Holy Spirit
« Reply #48 on: September 22, 2012, 11:14:00 pm »
Yeah you know the Bible has a lot of good stuff in.

Of course that is nothing like the good stuff you found on the Internet.

No, you would be wrong there, my FAITH, is sound as the ROCK Himself, ever since the last week of 1978.
That is when I fell on my knees and surrendered control of my life to JESUS CHRIST as LORD (which means MASTER).
And it only took three attempts at suicide to get me to that point of total surrender with a broken contrite heart.
HE has been leading my life every since, including the 15 years He had me serve HIM as Volunteer Protestant Prison Chaplain
in two different Super-Max Prisons.  He has been doing a MUCH BETTER job of running my life than I ever did, and I am
happier than I ever thought possible.

Where do I find the "good stuff" as you put it?  NOT ON THE INTERNET, but rather in my WORDsearch 7 Library, and in sermons by Dr. John MacArthur Jr., Dr. Charles Stanley, Dr. Ed Young, Dr. Richard Lee, Dr. Gil Rugh, Dr. Chuck Swindoll, Dr. Adrian Rogers, Dr. Zola Levitt, as well as my local Pastors.


Fat

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Re: The Promise of Baptism in the Holy Spirit
« Reply #49 on: September 23, 2012, 12:20:33 am »
No, you would be wrong there, my FAITH, is sound as the ROCK Himself, ever since the last week of 1978.
That is when I fell on my knees and surrendered control of my life to JESUS CHRIST as LORD (which means MASTER).
And it only took three attempts at suicide to get me to that point of total surrender with a broken contrite heart.
HE has been leading my life every since, including the 15 years He had me serve HIM as Volunteer Protestant Prison Chaplain
in two different Super-Max Prisons.  He has been doing a MUCH BETTER job of running my life than I ever did, and I am
happier than I ever thought possible.

Where do I find the "good stuff" as you put it?  NOT ON THE INTERNET, but rather in my WORDsearch 7 Library, and in sermons by Dr. John MacArthur Jr., Dr. Charles Stanley, Dr. Ed Young, Dr. Richard Lee, Dr. Gil Rugh, Dr. Chuck Swindoll, Dr. Adrian Rogers, Dr. Zola Levitt, as well as my local Pastors.

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

Neither MacArthur nor Stanley ever preach your view of the how faith is delivered to man. I'll say the same thing about Calvin, Gill and Spurgeon.

You have been shown here that the Gospel has been preached since the fall of Adam. There is no salvation in the beliefs of the ancient Cherokee. They never HEARD the promise as did Adam and Abraham. They never got the good news. There's not a two-tier system of salvation.

You have a good day VCO.

VCO

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Re: The Promise of Baptism in the Holy Spirit
« Reply #50 on: September 23, 2012, 12:57:19 am »
And they do come to HIM even when they call HIM Creator.

Colossians 1:16-18 (HCSB)
16 For everything was created by Him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17 He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together.
18 He is also the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He might come to have first place in everything.

HE IS CREATOR.

HE is also the head of the body, the church.

Fat

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Re: The Promise of Baptism in the Holy Spirit
« Reply #51 on: September 23, 2012, 02:54:36 pm »
And they do come to HIM even when they call HIM Creator.

Colossians 1:16-18 (HCSB)
16 For everything was created by Him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17 He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together.
18 He is also the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He might come to have first place in everything.

HE IS CREATOR.

HE is also the head of the body, the church.

Two points the first I'll let Paul make for me.

Quote from: KJV
Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed ? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard ? and how shall they hear without a preacher ?

The second point is from my heart to yours.

You said to BB.

Quote from: VCO
You are accountable for the LIGHT you have been given, not for the LIGHT you have never been given.  I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE HERE AND NOW, becuase Muslims have heard about JESUS and scoff at the idea that HE is GOD in the flesh.  THUS they have rejected the TRUTH or LIGHT that they were given, thus in my opinion they are blaspheming what the HOLY SPIRIT is trying to get them to believe.  With some people all we can do is make them accountable for the truth.  The TRUTH that the Native Americans were given prior to the white man getting here with the BIBLE for the first time; was the glory of GOD written in Creation.  Every human being is accountable for that LIGHT.  As for the blood of Christ, HE SHEAD IT FOR THE SINS OF THE WORLD.  The only sin anyone goes to hell for, is rejecting Jesus Christ as their LORD, denying He is GOD in the flesh.  THAT is the only unforgivable sin.

Your first sentence in this paragraph contradicts last. I also read in this paragraph that you do not believe that the gospel must be preached and understood by the person before they receive salvation. The Gospel, the good news, was not understood by the Cherokee Indians because they had no knowledge or way to gain the knowledge that the Creator did in fact come to this earth and sacrifice himself for their salvation. (John 1:1-14)
The Cherokees, Arapaho, the Apaches, the Nezperce may have believed in the great spirit creator, but they never believed that He came to this earth and sacrificed himself to conquer death on our behalf. The good news is not that there is a creator but there is a Creator that love them enough to sacrifice Himself.
No sin no matter what it is, is going to be forgiven unless the person who committed the sin repents and ask for forgiveness. When you find an ancient Cherokee that never send your find a Cherokee that went to heaven.

You are Arminianism in theology which commonly leads to straying from the Bible and the sovereignty of God. (Just a note here, it is kind of strange that you listen to Calvinist sermons.)

Another problem I see in your post is that you do not understand what you have to have faith in to be saved.
Quote from: Rom 10:9
Because if you confess with your mouth "Jesus is Lord" and in your heart you have faith that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

The good news is about the conquering of death by Christ, not that there is a Creator.

Theodore A. Jones

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Re: The Promise of Baptism in the Holy Spirit
« Reply #52 on: September 25, 2012, 05:19:22 pm »
Romans 10:9  that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved ;


Acts 16:30 and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved ?"31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

I think you need to back this train up a bit.
"Fo it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous."Rom. 2:13 One of the things you all have to understand is that a change was made to the law after Jesus' was crucified by adding a word to it. The Holy Spirit is only given to the people who have the faith to obey what this law demands.

biblebuf

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Re: The Promise of Baptism in the Holy Spirit
« Reply #53 on: September 25, 2012, 07:06:26 pm »
I think you need to back this train up a bit.
"Fo it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous."Rom. 2:13 One of the things you all have to understand is that a change was made to the law after Jesus' was crucified by adding a word to it. The Holy Spirit is only given to the people who have the faith to obey what this law demands.

If the person has the faith to obey the law why would he need the Holy Ghost?

I think in John 6 Christ is telling us that it works in reverse:

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: And they will all be taught by God. Everyone who has listened to and learned from the Father comes to Me- ........ 65 He said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless it is granted to him by the Father."

VCO

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Re: The Promise of Baptism in the Holy Spirit
« Reply #54 on: September 25, 2012, 11:03:15 pm »
Two points the first I'll let Paul make for me.

The second point is from my heart to yours.

You said to BB.

Your first sentence in this paragraph contradicts last. I also read in this paragraph that you do not believe that the gospel must be preached and understood by the person before they receive salvation. The Gospel, the good news, was not understood by the Cherokee Indians because they had no knowledge or way to gain the knowledge that the Creator did in fact come to this earth and sacrifice himself for their salvation. (John 1:1-14)
The Cherokees, Arapaho, the Apaches, the Nezperce may have believed in the great spirit creator, but they never believed that He came to this earth and sacrificed himself to conquer death on our behalf. The good news is not that there is a creator but there is a Creator that love them enough to sacrifice Himself.
No sin no matter what it is, is going to be forgiven unless the person who committed the sin repents and ask for forgiveness. When you find an ancient Cherokee that never send your find a Cherokee that went to heaven.

You are Arminianism in theology which commonly leads to straying from the Bible and the sovereignty of God. (Just a note here, it is kind of strange that you listen to Calvinist sermons.)

Another problem I see in your post is that you do not understand what you have to have faith in to be saved.
The good news is about the conquering of death by Christ, not that there is a Creator.

Now you have me repeating and repeating the same verse over and over again, like you were "deef" of something.  So after this post we will just half to agree to disagree:

Romans 1:20 (NKJV)
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

IF natives from a remote tribe that does not have the Bible in their language, nor a missionary in their presence to preach to them; THEN THEY WOULD HAVE AN EXCUSE IF YOUR OPINION WAS CORRECT.  That is my whole point.  EVEN THOSE HAVE NO EXCUSE, because HE SAID HE CAN BE KNOWN THROUGH THE THINGS HE CREATED.

As for how many sins are unforgiven by the blood of the cross, HE SAID ONE.  Adolf Hitler will not end up in hell for his war crimes, he will end up in the Lake of Fire for the same sin everyone else is sent there for.  THAT IS REJECTING JESUS CHRIST THE CREATOR AS LORD, which is blaspheming the work of the Holy Spirit, WHO is trying to get each individual to believe.

Luke 23:34 (NKJV)
34 Then Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do." And they divided His garments and cast lots.

2 Corinthians 5:19 (NKJV)
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 (GW)
2 He is the payment for our sins, and not only for our sins, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Matthew 12:31-32 (NKJV)
31 "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

That in not something that I made up in my head, THAT IS WHAT OUR LORD SAID.  All sins except ONE, HE forgave on the cross and PAID FOR THEM ALL with HIS blood, except the one, which is as I said, REJECTING JESUS CHRIST THE CREATOR AS LORD.
As for your misunderstanding of 1 John 1:9:

1 John 1:9 (NKJV)
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

That is not describing what we must DO to earn forgiveness for our sins, that would be works righteousness, and there is NO SUCH THING.

That verse is describing one of the MAIN natural characteristics of a genuine born again Christian.  We WILL BY OUR NEW SPIRITUAL NATURE, be those who willingly and eagerly confess our sins to HIM, as we discover them in our lives.

AND THEN you finally anwered the question that I asked you some time ago.  What do you think the "good news" or gospel of Jesus Christ is; and you aswer was:

QUOTE:  The good news is about the conquering of death by Christ, not that there is a Creator.

While it is true that Christ did conquer death, especially spiritual death; you answer misses the full definition of "the good news" by a country mile.

The good news is we desperately NEED as Saviour, because we cannot save ourselves from the JUST penalty of our sins.  GOD chose to have PART OF HIMSELF enter a body HE would create in the womb of a virgin, to be born a man, YET be GOD in that flesh; so that HE could live a sinless life, and HE could personally become the Holy Blood sacrifice the HE justly requires for our sins. AND THE BEST PART OF THE GOOD NEW IS:

John 1:12-13 (NKJV)
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Received HIM as what though?  Praise the LORD, He aswers that in Scripture too:

Colossians 2:6 (NIV)
6 So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him,

Perhaps the reason you are having such a hard time grasping these simple truths, is you fail to see just how ENORMOUS His Grace is, and the VASTNESS of HIS Mercy:

GRACE = Receiving what we do not deserve, nor have not earned.

MERCY = Not Receiving whe we DO DESERVE.

And even though HE went above and beyond, anything that we could expect, by paying all the sins of the world except one on the Cross.  THE VAST MAJORITY, will still reject HIM as LORD, including a great many that call themselves Christians; because they want to remain lord of their own lives.

Fat

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Re: The Promise of Baptism in the Holy Spirit
« Reply #55 on: September 25, 2012, 11:25:49 pm »
Now you have me repeating and repeating the same verse over and over again, like you were "deef" of something.  So after this post we will just half to agree to disagree:

Romans 1:20 (NKJV)
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

IF natives from a remote tribe that does not have the Bible in their language, nor a missionary in their presence to preach to them; THEN THEY WOULD HAVE AN EXCUSE IF YOUR OPINION WAS CORRECT.  That is my whole point.  EVEN THOSE HAVE NO EXCUSE, because HE SAID HE CAN BE KNOWN THROUGH THE THINGS HE CREATED.

As for how many sins are unforgiven by the blood of the cross, HE SAID ONE.  Adolf Hitler will not end up in hell for his war crimes, he will end up in the Lake of Fire for the same sin everyone else is sent there for.  THAT IS REJECTING JESUS CHRIST THE CREATOR AS LORD, which is blaspheming the work of the Holy Spirit, WHO is trying to get each individual to believe.

Luke 23:34 (NKJV)
34 Then Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do." And they divided His garments and cast lots.

2 Corinthians 5:19 (NKJV)
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 (GW)
2 He is the payment for our sins, and not only for our sins, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Matthew 12:31-32 (NKJV)
31 "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

That in not something that I made up in my head, THAT IS WHAT OUR LORD SAID.

As for your misunderstanding of 1 John 1:9:

1 John 1:9 (NKJV)
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

That is not describing what we must DO to earn forgiveness for our sins, that would be works righteousness, and there is NO SUCH THING.

That verse is describing one of the MAIN natural characteristics of a genuine born again Christian.  We WILL BY OUR NEW SPIRITUAL NATURE, be those who willingly and eagerly confess our sins to HIM, as we discover them in our lives.

I'm sorry my friend but you have no message. At least nothing that you have backed up with scripture.

Acts 8:26 An angel of the Lord spoke to Philip: "Get up and go south to the road that goes down from Jerusalem to desert Gaza." 27 So he got up and went. There was an Ethiopian man, a eunuch and high official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of her entire treasury. He had come to worship in Jerusalem 28 and was sitting in his chariot on his way home, reading the prophet Isaiah aloud. 29 The Spirit told Philip, "Go and join that chariot." 30 When Philip ran up to it, he heard him reading the prophet Isaiah, and said, "Do you understand what you're reading?" 31 "How can I," he said, "unless someone guides me?" So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him. 32 Now the Scripture passage he was reading was this: He was led like a sheep to the slaughter, and as a lamb is silent before its shearer, so He does not open His mouth. 33 In His humiliation justice was denied Him. Who will describe His generation? For His life is taken from the earth. 34 The eunuch replied to Philip, "I ask you, who is the prophet saying this about-himself or another person?" 35 So Philip proceeded to tell him the good news about Jesus, beginning from that Scripture. 36 As they were traveling down the road, they came to some water. The eunuch said, "Look, there's water! What would keep me from being baptized?" [ 37 And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart you may." And he replied, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."]

The good news is not that there is a creator, and until you understand that have a major problem.

The Word became Flesh. It took the Cherokees 1600 years after the after the Crucifixion to learn this.

I'll stick with the Bible and you can make up any story that makes you feel good. Yes we agree to disagree.



VCO

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Re: The Promise of Baptism in the Holy Spirit
« Reply #56 on: September 25, 2012, 11:53:26 pm »
I'm sorry my friend but you have no message. At least nothing that you have backed up with scripture.
. . . The Word became Flesh. It took the Cherokees 1600 years after the after the Crucifixion to learn this.

I'll stick with the Bible and you can make up any story that makes you feel good. Yes we agree to disagree.

Better re-read my last post, I was adding more when you responded, and I certainly backed everything I said up with Scripture.  I am sorry you cannot see it.  I enjoyed the discussion though.

Cya

Titus 2:13 (ISV)
13 as we wait for the blessed hope and the glorious appearance of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Theodore A. Jones

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Re: The Promise of Baptism in the Holy Spirit
« Reply #57 on: September 26, 2012, 05:29:44 am »
If the person has the faith to obey the law why would he need the Holy Ghost?

I think in John 6 Christ is telling us that it works in reverse:

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: And they will all be taught by God. Everyone who has listened to and learned from the Father comes to Me- ........ 65 He said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless it is granted to him by the Father."


The law referenced in Rom. 2:13 is one that has been added after Jesus was crucified.

VCO

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Re: The Promise of Baptism in the Holy Spirit
« Reply #58 on: September 26, 2012, 08:28:20 am »
Fat,

One finally thought to share with you.  You have quoted this verse several times concerning Faith:

Romans 10:14 (NKJV)
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?

And I have quoted this verse several times:

Romans 1:20 (NKJV)
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

Romans 1:20 is describing one of GOD's preachers, and it is created nature itself; and it is preaching about the invisibe attributes of GOD, and His power (which includes His power to save), and even the Doctrine of the Godhead.

Now, since I am pretty sure that you believe "All Scripture is inspired by GOD."; it is GOD who put those words in Romans 1:20 in Pauls head.

Fat

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Re: The Promise of Baptism in the Holy Spirit
« Reply #59 on: September 26, 2012, 08:45:59 am »
Better re-read my last post, I was adding more when you responded, and I certainly backed everything I said up with Scripture.  I am sorry you cannot see it.  I enjoyed the discussion though.

Cya

Titus 2:13 (ISV)
13 as we wait for the blessed hope and the glorious appearance of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

You keep forgetting a word in your salvation scenario, repent.

Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins ; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

"Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord ;

"Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,

Note that the word sins is plural not singular.

When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."

For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,

and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

May the great corn mother watch your Cherokee brothers.