DISHONESTY

[macuser]

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DISHONESTY

What are some of the consequences of dishonesty?

What if my father touches me? I would appear to be tricking him and would bring down a curse on myself rather than a blessing. (Genesis 27:12 , niv)

Fear and dishonesty are closely related. How we react to a moral dilemma often exposes our real motives. Frequently we are more worried about getting caught than about doing what is right. Jacob did not seem concerned about the deceitfulness of his mother’s plan; instead he was afraid of getting in trouble while carrying it out. If you are worried about getting caught, you are probably in a position that is less than honest. Let your fear of getting caught be a warning to do right. Jacob paid a huge price for carrying out this dishonest plan.

When Samuel finally found him, Saul greeted him cheerfully. “Hello there,” he said. “Well, I have carried out the Lord’s command!” (1 Samuel 15:13 , tlb)

Small areas of dishonesty are not overlooked by God. Saul thought he had won a great victory over the Amalekites, but God saw it as a great failure because Saul had disobeyed him and then lied to Samuel about the results of the battle. Saul may have thought his lie wouldn’t be detected, or that what he did was not wrong. Saul was deceiving himself.
Dishonesty begins to seem like the truth after a while. Dishonest people soon begin to believe their own lies. Then they lose the ability to tell the difference between truth and falsehood. By believing your own lies you will deceive yourself, alienate yourself from God, and lose credibility in all your relationships. In the long run, honesty wins out.

The Lord detests differing weights, and dishonest scales do not please him. (Proverbs 20:23 , niv)

Persistent dishonesty affects us deeply. “Differing weights” refers to the loaded scales a merchant might use in order to cheat the customers. Dishonesty is a difficult sin to avoid. It is easy to cheat if we think no one else is looking. But dishonesty affects the very core of a person. It makes him untrustworthy and untrusting. It eventually makes him unable to know himself or relate to others. Don’t take dishonesty lightly. Even the smallest portion of dishonesty contains enough of the poison of deceit to kill your spiritual life. If there is any dishonesty in your life, tell God about it now.

Neil S. Wilson

[Fat]

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Fear and dishonesty are closely related. How we react to a moral dilemma often exposes our real motives. Frequently we are more worried about getting caught than about doing what is right. Jacob did not seem concerned about the deceitfulness of his mother’s plan; instead he was afraid of getting in trouble while carrying it out. If you are worried about getting caught, you are probably in a position that is less than honest. Let your fear of getting caught be a warning to do right. Jacob paid a huge price for carrying out this dishonest plan.

I don't know if I can go along with this.
I'm on my phone right now but when I get home I'll post some Scrpiture that disagrees with this.

[Fat]

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joshua 2
4 But the woman (Rahab) had taken the two men and hidden them, and she said, "Yes, the men came to me, but I did not know where they were from. 5 "It came about when it was time to shut the gate at dark, that the men went out; I do not know where the men went. Pursue them quickly, for you will overtake them." 6 But she had brought them up to the roof and hidden them in the stalks of flax which she had laid in order on the roof.


joshua 6
24 They burned the city with fire, and all that was in it. Only the silver and gold, and articles of bronze and iron, they put into the treasury of the house of the LORD. 25 However, Rahab the harlot and her father's household and all she had, Joshua spared ; and she has lived in the midst of Israel to this day, for she hid the messengers whom Joshua sent to spy out Jericho.

Hebrews 11
31 By faith Rahab the harlot did not perish along with those who were disobedient, after she had welcomed the spies in
peace.

James 2
25 In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out
by another way?

The story of Rahab is a 180 from Mr. Wilson's assertion.

[macuser]

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This is an interesting story, it would appear that God rewarded Rahab for her dishonesty.  No - Yes?

[Dandi]

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Well, I wouldn't put it that way; that God rewarded Rahab FOR lying.  Rahab did lie, but not for the reprehensible reasons such as to hurt or injure someone, or for greedy reasons.  Having great faith in God, her motivation was to not put herself at odds with a God she had heard about.  She knew she did not want to be his enemy.  So, more accurately, she was rewarded for her faith in God.

Interestingly, Jesus did not feel it was necessary to give full information or direct answers to certain questions when certain ones were not entitled to the information or if it would bring unnecessary harm.  Jesus said, "Do not give what is holy to dogs, neither throw your pearls before swine, that they may never trample them under their feet and turn around and rip you open." (Matthew 7:6)

Also, think of the occasion when the woman with a flow of blood for several years, approached and touched Jesus to be healed of her sickness (Mark 5: 25 - 34).  According to the Mosaic law, she was not to touch anyone while she had her flow of blood which made her unclean (Leviticus 15:25-27)...  Yet, she touched him anyway and Jesus healed her.  Was Jesus rewarding her for going against the Mosaic law?  I wouldn't say he rewarded her for disobeying the Mosaic law.  What he was rewarding her for was her exceptional faith.  In fact, he said as much in verse 34, "Daughter, your faith has made you well." 

[macuser]

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Is there a defence between lying and bearing false witness? There is more to Exodus 20:16 in that it is directed to against thy neighbour, what is the definition of neighbour? Islam teaches that it is alright to lie to an unbeliever.

[JB Horn]

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I don't think that giving missinformation to your enemy would violate the 9Th commandment.

JB

[Dandi]

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I believe there is a slight difference between lying to someone and bearing false witness against someone, as the commandment says.  Because a person can lie without bearing false witness against another, but they cannot bear false witness against another without lying.  Bearing false witness "against" another, would involve things like slandering someone or making false accusations against them.  Slander and making false accusations against someone would demean them or make them appear guilty and deserving of punishment of something for which they are not guilty of. 

So, who was to be considered their neighbor?  Only other Jews?  Consider what Leviticus 19:34 says, " The alien resident who resides as an alien with you should become to you like a native of yours; and you must love him as youself, for you became alien residents in the land of Egypt..."  Therefore, even non-jews were to be treated with love.  However, the Jewish leaders in Jesus' day viewed a "friend" or "neighbor" to include only other Jews.

Actually, Jesus was asked by someone, "Who really is my neighbor?"  And Jesus gave him an illustration to reason on at Luke 10:29-37, involving a Jew who was robbed and assaulted along a road and left there.  First, a priest passed by him without offering any assistance.  Then, a Levite passed by on the other side as well offering no help to him.  But then a Samaritan man traveling along the road saw the injured Jew and made great efforts to care for him.  Jesus asked, who of these three seemed to have made himself a neighbor to the injured man?  "The one who acted mercifully toward him," was the answer.  Jesus said, "Go your way and be doing the same yourself."

I don't think the whole incident of Rahab's dishonesty was recorded to give us an excuse to become unashamed liars.  As I mentioned, she was not rewarded for lying.  She was rewarded for her faith.  The point was her faith in God and how he would act in his people's behalf.  We are intended to imitate her faith, not her dishonesty.  There are a few scriptures in the Bible that speak against having a "false tongue" and being "liars".  But nowhere is having faith in God spoken of negatively or with disapproval.  Still, I think God views us as the imperfect humans that we are, and thankfully, he prefers to focus on  the good in us rather than the bad when we have a general inclination to be obedient to him and display faith.

[macuser]

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Dandi makes some good points.

To consider:
Leviticus 19:11 instructs us not to lie to each other.

1 timothy 1:10 makes a distinction between liars and perjurers but puts them both in the same category as ungodly and unrighteous.

Remember what got us into this mess, it was a lie about the meaning of God's word.  "No! You will not die," the serpent said to the woman.

There are a lot of ways to be DISHONEST and lying is only one of them. In today's business world there is a lot of legal dishonesty that does not include lying, but by not being forthcoming or withholding information that would effect a business partner or client. For instance allowing a person to make an investment the he believes to be secure when you know he will lose it.