Bible Talk > Eschatology
Three Beasts
Hal:
Hello unknownservant
I'm in no hurry my friend.
Let tell you what I am drawing from your post, so I'm sure we are on the same page.
--- Quote ---Notice that the people are commanded to fall down and worship the Beast. This is the Harlot that rides upon the scarlet colored Beast.
--- End quote ---
You believe that the woman is all the none saved people whom have not been chosen. If I'm wrong please help me out.
I believe that the last verse of the chapter tells us that she is a city and the one that fits that description is the Vatican.
18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth."
It is clear to me that she has authority over others, not the elect.
IHS
Hal
unknownservant:
Hi Hal,
Yes, the harlot that rides on the Beast system is all of the people of the earth that are not truly saved. I'll outline it below.
The following verse (Revelation 17:8) shows that the Beast system is actually headed by satan and 'they that dwell on the earth' will wonder whose names were NOT written in the Book Of Life from the foundation of the world. The word 'wonder' means admire. If they 'admire' the beast, they are worshiping the beast. Of course they will be joining his system. Now, if they admire satan (leader of Beast), then that means they are harlots. Cheating on GOD. 'they that dwell on the earth' means 'Everyone' that is not elect (written into The Book Of Life from the foundation of the world). So, this verse in itself says that the woman or harlot is all the world.
Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
The seven mountains (Revelation 17:9) on which the woman sits are not current geographical locations, but one geographical location over time. That location is The Dome Of The Rock where GOD'S THRONE will be located (The North side of the Temple). The devil will claim that location. These mountains are kingdoms that have formed and have been conquered down through time, but the key thing to notice is that each of these kingdoms had control over Jerusalem. It started with ancient Babylon and will end with end time Babylon, which is 'that great city'. Ancient Babylon ruled the known world, end time Babylon will rule the known world also. The difference is that end time Babylon includes 'they that dwell on the earth'. Also, it is basically one continuous thread that shows satan's rule to the end of the age. The seventh head of the Beast that has seven heads and ten horns is end time Babylon (which is Mystery Babylon, that great harlot). That great city that rules over the kings of the earth is a One World System because it rules over the kings of the earth. Just like the Beast that forms out of the people, the religious system forms out of those same people (peoples, nations, multitudes, and tongues).
Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
A mountain is a kingdom or nation. Now, these seven kings are the leaders of those seven mountains. Many have already fallen (actually five have fallen at this time). You can trace these kingdoms to the end of the age, and if you look at what is written in the Bible and also look at history, you can find almost exactly where we are in time relative to The LORD'S DAY. Now, we know that the one that 'must continue a short space' is the devil. The devil is the leader of the last mountain or kingdom of this age. The key is that five are fallen, and one is. We know that when the one that 'is' falls, that the devil is the one that takes his place.
Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
The Beast that was (was in the last age), and is not (he is not here now because he is in prison), he is the eighth at the end of the Millennium for a short season. The devil is the seventh king and is also the eighth king, but after the Millennium. The seventh king is the last king of this age or the age of flesh. The devil goes into perdition and is the only named son of GOD that is already sentenced to death (Ezekiel 28) (perdition means to perish).
Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
If you look at Revelation 12 where the Beast system is a sign in Heaven rather than on earth, you will notice that the crowns were on the heads of those kings. In this age you will notice that the crowns are on the horns. A horn means power whereas a king has a kingdom (king and dominion). These ten horns of this age aren't home grown kings (no dominion), they are given power as kings. The hour spoken of here is the hour of temptation (Jacob's Trouble).
Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
They all have the same purpose (one mind). These horns are well familiar with the devil because they get cast to earth with the devil (Revelation 12).
Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
The called have free will and were saved. The chosen are predestined (Elect, which are GOD'S 7000).
Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
The waters (sea) where the Beast rose from are the people, so the Beast system (which is what the harlot rides on), which is also religious, worships satan. This means the people, which are GOD'S children are worshiping satan. If they are worshiping satan, they are harlots.
Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
The ten horns are actually fallen angels that come to earth with satan. They mingle with the seed of men. They make the whore desolate meaning they shall take TRUTH from the whore. Any place or group of people that doesn't have GOD'S TRUTH is desolate. The whore is naked because they worship satan. This means that they have no righteous acts to speak of. And as far as eating her flesh, she obviously left her work in the field because she thought JESUS had returned and the work was over. Well, where her body is, the birds of prey will be there also to eat her flesh (Spiritually dead).
Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
As far as getting burned with fire goes, GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE, but these angels bring their fake fire, pretending to be CHRIST.
Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
Like GOD says in the book of Joel, the locust army is HIS army.
Rev 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
If she reigns over the kings of the earth, then she is in control of the earth. That would be a One World System.
Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
Now, lets trace the seven mountains to the end of the age:
Dan 3:1 Nebuchadnezzar the king made an image of gold, whose height was threescore cubits, and the breadth thereof six cubits: he set it up in the plain of Dura, in the province of Babylon.
Dan 3:4 Then an herald cried aloud, To you it is commanded, O people, nations, and languages,
Dan 3:5 That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up:
Dan 3:6 And whoso falleth not down and worshippeth shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.
Notice in the verses above (Dan 3:1 and Dan 3:4 through Dan 3:6) that the dimensions of the image and the number of instruments played tells you that this is the beast system of the end time (and his number is 666).
Rev 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
(was, and is not, and yet is = was in the last age, and is not here now because he is in the pit (prison), and yet is because he is coming back. )
Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
(Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. )
Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
So, the woman is GOD'S children, which is the sea of people that the One World Beast System forms of, and they are whoring after satan (who performs miracles on the earth in the sight of man and heals the deadly wound) of the One World System because they think that satan is JESUS. They fall away to the false CHRIST because they did not have a love for the TRUTH.
(2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. )
(2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. )
The kings and kingdoms which are indicated in king Nebuchadnezzar's Image point to the end time Babylon The Great, which is the One World Beast System:
(which is the seventh mountain that Mystery Babylon, the Harlot sits upon)
Reference Daniel chapter 2 for king Nebuchadnezzar's Image and Daniel chapter 8 for a list of the kingdoms that lead to the end time Babylon. The first vision was Daniels interpretation of king Nebuchadnezzar's Image. This verse tells you that the verses in Daniel chapter 8 further describe that Image ('after that which appeared unto me at the first').
You can determine from both chapters the kingdoms (or mountains) of this Image.
Dan 8:1 In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first.
1. Babylon (ancient) (head of gold) (this is one king of the five that are fallen).
2. Media and Persia (the ram with two horns) (silver arms and breast) (there are two kings here, but since they ruled together, lets count one kingdom as one of the five that are fallen).
3. Greece (Alexander The Great) (belly and thighs of brass) (one king of the five that are fallen).
4. Roman Empire (legs of iron) (one king of the five that are fallen).
5. Mohammad Empire (Arab) (since around 900 A.D.) (hasn't fallen yet, but will be one of the five that are fallen if Media and Persia count as one of the five instead of two).
6. One World System (this will count as the one that is, which is the sixth king or kingdom).
7. Anti CHRIST (which is satan is the seventh king) (One World Beast System with deadly wound healed) (must continue a short space).
MILLENNIUM ROD OF IRON DISCIPLINE = THE LORD'S DAY occurs between the seventh and the eighth king.
8. This king is satan without the role as anti CHRIST to test GOD'S children for a short season at the end of the Millennium before the WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT (satan is the eighth king, and is of the seven and goeth into perdition).
Note that if Media and Persia (silver arms and breast) count as two kings, then the one that is, would be the Mohammad Empire (Arab) and the ten horns which are the fallen angels (power as kings) would likely arrive before satan at that time and prepare for the arrival of satan (see Dan 7:24). This would put the Roman Empire as the fifth king that fell.
After the eighth king, then:
WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT
ETERNITY!
Note: the stone carved from the mountain (which will be the last of the seven mountains is the One World System) is likely GOD'S 7000, which are GOD'S Elect being delivered up for a testimony against satan, and/or may be the return of THE TRUE CHRIST.
Dan_2:34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
Hal:
Hello unknownservant,
As I said I don't draw the same conclusion as you do. I'll add a few commentaries from others look at it much like I do.
Gills commentary
Revelation 17:18
And the woman which thou sawest
( Revelation 17:3 ) as there described,
is that great city,
often mentioned in this book; great Babylon, the city of Rome, ( Revelation 11:8 ) ( 14:8 ) ( 16:19 ) which reigneth over the kings of the earth; which then reigned in John's time over the kings of the earth; and this clearly points out the city of Rome, for there was no other city then, but that, which reigned over the kings of the earth; that was then the metropolis of the Roman empire, to which the whole world was subject; and therefore it is called all the world, ( Luke 2:1 ) and since, all the kings of the empire have been under the jurisdiction of Rome Papal. It was formerly called Urbs Regum, a "city of kings" F26, either for the reason in the text, or because its inhabitants looked like kings.
Robertson’s word pictures
The woman (h gunh). She is now explained after the beast has been interpreted. Verse Micah 1:9 made it plain enough, but this verse demonstrates that the woman is the city of Rome "which reigneth (h ecousa basileian, the one having a kingdom) over the kings of the earth (epi twn basilewn th gh)." Rome followed Babylon, and other cities may follow in their train.
Treasury of Scripture Knowledge
the woman
16:19 18:2 Daniel 2:40 Daniel 2:41 ; 7:23 Luke 2:1
which reigneth
The city which, at the time of the vision, "reigned over the kings of the earth," was undoubtedly Rome; and from its foundation, it has, in different ways, accomplished this object to the present time.
12:4
Have a good day unknownservant, catch you on the next one and thanks for your thoughts on the woman.
Hal
Fat:
--- Quote from: Hal on January 28, 2015, 10:48:29 pm ---Hello unknownservant,
As I said I don't draw the same conclusion as you do. I'll add a few commentaries from others look at it much like I do.
Gills commentary
Revelation 17:18
And the woman which thou sawest
( Revelation 17:3 ) as there described,
is that great city,
often mentioned in this book; great Babylon, the city of Rome, ( Revelation 11:8 ) ( 14:8 ) ( 16:19 ) which reigneth over the kings of the earth; which then reigned in John's time over the kings of the earth; and this clearly points out the city of Rome, for there was no other city then, but that, which reigned over the kings of the earth; that was then the metropolis of the Roman empire, to which the whole world was subject; and therefore it is called all the world, ( Luke 2:1 ) and since, all the kings of the empire have been under the jurisdiction of Rome Papal. It was formerly called Urbs Regum, a "city of kings" F26, either for the reason in the text, or because its inhabitants looked like kings.
Robertson’s word pictures[/b
The woman (h gunh). She is now explained after the beast has been interpreted. Verse Micah 1:9 made it plain enough, but this verse demonstrates that the woman is the city of Rome "which reigneth (h ecousa basileian, the one having a kingdom) over the kings of the earth (epi twn basilewn th gh)." Rome followed Babylon, and other cities may follow in their train.
Treasury of Scripture Knowledge
the woman
16:19 18:2 Daniel 2:40 Daniel 2:41 ; 7:23 Luke 2:1
which reigneth
The city which, at the time of the vision, "reigned over the kings of the earth," was undoubtedly Rome; and from its foundation, it has, in different ways, accomplished this object to the present time.
12:4
Have a good day unknownservant, catch you on the next one and thanks for your thoughts on the woman.
Hal
--- End quote ---
It's Hillary Clinton 8)
Defacto:
To correct a previous assumption in the OP: Rev.13 describes two beasts, the Antichrist who is the one coming out of the sea in verses 1-2, and the False Prophet, who is the one that comes out of the earth, in verse 11. The dragon is Satan, identified in Rev.12, who will give the beast out of the sea, his throne, power and great authority. The beast out of the sea, the Antichrist, is #666 in verse 18.
Defacto
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