Bible Talk > Eschatology
Why Are We What We Are?
unknownservant:
--- Quote from: Fat on February 08, 2015, 09:38:10 am ---Let me understand this, you believe that you are God's elect because of something you did in the previous age.
In other words you believe that you earned being chosen?
--- End quote ---
Hi Fat,
Take a look at Ephesians 1:4 and 5. The elect were chosen before the foundation of the world. This is before Adam and Eve in Genesis.
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
What is so special about GOD'S Elect?
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
They did not bow the knee satan.
unknownservant:
--- Quote from: biblebuf on February 08, 2015, 09:52:32 am ---Reincarnation. 🐂
--- End quote ---
Hi BibleBuf,
No! :), it is not reincarnation! Please read the post again and read it in context. GOD hates Esau while Esau is still in the womb. Then later in verse Romans 9:22 it says what if GOD, willing to show his wrath, and to make HIS power known, endured (endured is past tense) with much longsuffering (longsuffering means patience, patience automatically means over time) the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction. If endured is past tense and also means over a period of time and patience also indicates over a period of time, then when did GOD have patience for Esau? It could only be before Esau was in the womb and also Esau had to be doing something bad for GOD to hate him.
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
unknownservant:
--- Quote from: Hal on February 08, 2015, 10:44:30 am ---I agree with phat, unknownservants interpatation is about works to earn being the Elect. This is not biblical !
For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? "A BRAHAM BELIEVED G OD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: (Romans 4:2-6 NASB)
--- End quote ---
Hi Hal,
This post is not actually about works. It is about why GOD hated Esau and loved Jacob. The context however is about why GOD hated Esau while he was still in the womb. It says Esau was a vessel fitted to destruction and that GOD endured Esau's behavior. In order for Esau to be bad before he was in the womb, he had to be somewhere. And please don't use that typical answer of saying that GOD knows everything and that is why HE hated Esau. The scriptures do NOT say that. If anyone says that is what GOD is saying, then they are changing GOD'S WORD and entered the territory of being a cult.
unknownservant:
--- Quote from: Fat on February 08, 2015, 12:44:38 pm ---What is being preach to you here is a false interpretation of the Scriptures. We can all agree that before our existence God knew us, because God knows all past, Present, And future.
The poster is basing this belief of his, that he is an angel who was once in heaven with God, by the Scriptures is posted here in Romans 9:11.
So we agree that God knew us before our existence here on earth, but can you show us the Scriptures that Tell us that we knew god?
No we can not show this.
Of course the other problem is, if this age is a chance for you to workout your mistakes of the last age then why did you enter this age as the elect?
Fat
--- End quote ---
Hi Fat,
To call this post a false doctrine when you do not understand the post is a dangerous thing because if the post is accurate then you are calling GOD'S WORD a false doctrine.
It is true that GOD knows all things, but if you insert that into the interpretation of a scripture when GOD did not say that, then you are changing GOD'S WORD and starting your own cult.
Here is an example:
Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Now, if you say that GOD knew Jeremiah before Jeremiah was formed in the belly because GOD knows all things and knew Jeremiah before Jeremiah's existence, then you are changing GOD'S WORD and starting your own cult. The reason this would be the case is because GOD did not say that.
GOD said: Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee;
Here is the Hebrew definition of 'I knew':
H3045
ידע
yâda‛
yaw-dah'
A primitive root; to know (properly to ascertain by seeing); used in a great variety of senses, figuratively, literally, euphemistically and inferentially (including observation, care, recognition; and causatively instruction, designation, punishment, etc.): - acknowledge, acquaintance (-ted with), advise, answer, appoint, assuredly, be aware, [un-] awares, can [-not], certainly, for a certainty, comprehend, consider, X could they, cunning, declare, be diligent, (can, cause to) discern, discover, endued with, familiar friend, famous, feel, can have, be [ig-] norant, instruct, kinsfolk, kinsman, (cause to, let, make) know, (come to give, have, take) knowledge, have [knowledge], (be, make, make to be, make self) known, + be learned, + lie by man, mark, perceive, privy to, X prognosticator, regard, have respect, skilful, shew, can (man of) skill, be sure, of a surety, teach, (can) tell, understand, have [understanding], X will be, wist, wit, wot.
Notice that the definition of 'I knew' means to ascertain by seeing or by observation.
GOD knew Jeremiah before Jeremiah was in his mother's womb by seeing or observing Jeremiah. That means Jeremiah was there.
GOD did NOT say: Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee by my awesome power and abilities to know past, present, and future. To even suggest such a thing is to add your imagination to GOD'S WORD and come up with a cult that leads people astray. Read GOD'S WORD for exactly what it says or you will be treading on the modern fertile ground of being a cult. There are plenty of cults out there these days and they probably started in the same fertile imagination way.
Hal:
--- Quote from: unknownservant on February 09, 2015, 11:52:34 pm ---Hi Hal,
This post is not actually about works. It is about why GOD hated Esau and loved Jacob. The context however is about why GOD hated Esau while he was still in the womb. It says Esau was a vessel fitted to destruction and that GOD endured Esau's behavior. In order for Esau to be bad before he was in the womb, he had to be somewhere. And please don't use that typical answer of saying that GOD knows everything and that is why HE hated Esau. The scriptures do NOT say that. If anyone says that is what GOD is saying, then they are changing GOD'S WORD and entered the territory of being a cult.
--- End quote ---
First the scripture says they were never bad or good. READ IT BEFORE YOU POST IT!
Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born , neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand , not of works, but of him that calleth (KJV)
for [the children] being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth, (NAS)
The election is from God's sovereignty, not from works (good or bad as you put it)
You are adding to the scripture, 'not allowed on this board'.
Second:
Ephesians 1:11 KJV In whom also we have obtained an inheritance , being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Being predestinated is defrent then being preexisting.
The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 4309 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
proorivzw from (4253) and (3724)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Proorizo 5:456,728
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
pro-or-id'-zo Verb
Definition
to predetermine, decide beforehand
in the NT of God decreeing from eternity
to foreordain, appoint beforehand
Foreordain, appoint beforehand
P.S. I read your reply to Phat and you did not address his post, you just slapped unrelated verses - I guess to impress someone.
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