No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. (John 1:18 NASB)
Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father. (John 6:46 NASB)
Unknownservant
If you knew God before this age then the bible is not true.
Is this the doctrine you preach?
Hi Bob,
By your statements regarding 'Is this the doctrine that you preach?' and 'If you knew God before this age then the bible is not true.', it is obvious to me that you do not understand the very scriptures that you use to try and prove your statements. It is also obvious that I'm not in very friendly territory. I say this because the very people that are supposed to be knowledgeable that have replied to my post are replying with statements that would inspire discontent and inflamatory attitudes rather than openly and intelligently discussing scripture in a mature and Godly manner. We are supposed to rightly divide The WORD of GOD and treat each other with brotherly love, not attack each other in a manner that would repell any new Christian that happens to be browsing around looking for information that may give them more knowledge as to what GOD is really about. If there are any knowledgeable people on this site that can see what what I'm rightly dividing in these scriptures, I request that you speak up so that anyone that is seeking Truth (as well as myself) can see that there are some Christians out there that actually follow the very doctrine that they profess to be True, meaning that whether you do see or whether you don't see, that you reply in a manner that is consistent with the teachings of the very Savior in the which you profess. I will reply very lightly on the verses you used to make your statements, then I will also give a quick layout of what my post was trying to get you to see. I don't expect a very positive response, but I have done my job. At least I have had good opportunity to sample what people will see that they are getting if they run into those that preach brotherly love and then attack the very people that seek GOD in love.
Look at the verses you use to support your claim. I will explain this one only. It says that 'no man' has seen GOD 'at any time'. If you have eyes to see, you will notice that it is saying that no flesh has seen GOD, that means no man in this age. You may also understand this more clearly if you can understand what 'begotten' means. It means the only 'born' of GOD. To be begotten means to be born in the flesh. JESUS is the only begotten of GOD. By the context, you can see that this is referring to the flesh age just like the post I made shows the context of GOD speaking about Esau before he came to the flesh age.
Joh 1:18 No manG3762 hath seenG3708 GodG2316 at any time;G4455 theG3588 only begottenG3439 Son,G5207 which isG5607 inG1519 theG3588 bosomG2859 of theG3588 Father,G3962 heG1565 hath declaredG1834 him.
G4455
πώποτε
pōpote
po'-pot-e
From G4452 and G4218; at any time, that is, (with negative particle) at no time: - at any time, + never (. . . to any man), + yet never man.
G3439
μονογενής
monogenēs
mon-og-en-ace
From G3441 and G1096; only born, that is, sole: - only (begotten, child).
Joh 6:46 NotG3756 thatG3754 any manG5100 hath seenG3708 theG3588 Father,G3962 saveG1508 he which isG5607 ofG3844 God,G2316 heG3778 hath seenG3708 theG3588 Father.G3962
G3708
ὁράω
horaō
hor-ah'-o
Properly to stare at (compare G3700), that is, (by implication) to discern clearly (physically or mentally); by extension to attend to; by Hebraism to experience; passively to appear: - behold, perceive, see, take heed.
Now please note that this post was never about works. Works do not save you. We are saved by faith. But common sense says that if you say you are saved by faith and you have no works, then you are a fake. Faith without works is dead and dead faith is the same as no faith. I state this to anyone that is trying to sidetrack the purpose of the post. Scripture shows deeper meaning to those with eyes to see and ears to hear. This post has shown you that Esau and therefore us as well, had a reputation before he was a flesh man. Anyone who contradicts the WORD of GOD by inserting things into scripture such as saying that GOD knew something by HIS abilities rather than by the very common sense that GOD puts in HIS WORD is going to be in a lot of trouble when JESUS returns. In the example that I used in previous comments, there are those that would insert their imaginations into scripture and change GOD'S WORD. When they failed in that attempt, they tried to change the very definition of the word from the manuscripts. This is the age in which even the very Christians try to change the words of the ONE that Bought them.
These verses are in context. There is nothing outside of this set of verses. They are complete within themselves. Look at the summary of each area of the set of scriptures and see if you can tell what the scriptures say. These scriptures show that Esau existed before flesh and had a bad reputation.
Rom 9:9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
Rom 9:10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
1. In the verses above, Esau is one of these children and isn't actually born yet and hasn't done any good or evil, yet GOD is deciding what Esau's lot will be. So, it is NOT of works, but of HIM that calleth.
Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
2. GOD hates Esau. But why does GOD hate Esau?
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
3. Is GOD unrighteous for hating Esau? No GOD is not unrighteous for hating Esau.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
4. GOD decides. The situation that each person is born into in this flesh life is up to GOD. It's not decided by works, but it is decided by GOD.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
5. What GOD makes you is not up to you. Who are you to question GOD'S decision on your situation?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
6. Now, we are still in the context of Esau not yet being born (even though Esau is in his mother's womb) and scripture says this:
What if GOD, willing to show HIS wrath (anger), and to make HIS power known (that's right, you will sure know HE is GOD if HE shows HIS power), endured with patience (now GOD is saying that HE put up with the vessels that HE was angry with. Common sense says that if GOD is angry with someone, then they must have done something bad), the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction (Esau, and others like him should be destroyed for doing what they did that GOD put up with, so what they get is their own fault, so they can't complain to GOD about their situation. They get what they deserve.)
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
7. Even though GOD tells us why people are in their situation in this life, HE is loving and merciful.
So, this post is not about works. It's about the situation that people are in with regard to this life and how they got there. And by common sense, if GOD is angry with Esau and endured Esau's behavior, even though GOD is pointing out that HIS anger is not related to what Esau is doing while Esau is in the womb, but saying that HE endured (past tense and meaning that HE put up with something over time), then it had to be something that Esau did before he was in his mother's womb.
And why would GOD do something so that people would know it was HE that did it and that they would know that HE is The LORD? Well, have you ever considered what people would do if they realize GOD and know GOD'S awesome power? They would call on HIS name and then HE would save them.
These scriptures are about Esau and Jacob and why they were in the situation they were in when they were born into the flesh. This is long before JESUS was born into this world. We know that we are saved by grace through faith, and not by works. But that grace that we have by faith in JESUS is a result of what JESUS did. Esau was being born into this world into a particular situation that was a result of his bad character and Esau was not evaluating what he did and that grace was available while he was a not yet born in the flesh baby a very long time before JESUS was here to save us.
I have much deeper knowledge to share, but if no one speaks up that they are actually seeing these things, then it is better to seek out those that can see rather than those who attack and contradict the very nature that they are supposed to profess.
