Bible Talk > Eschatology
There will be two more temples built in Jerusalem
Fat:
Revelation 11:1
John Gill and John Darby commentaries use replacement theology to explain the Temple actually being the Church.
Many commentaries claim the reference to the Temple is the spiritual church of God's elect. Another form of replacement theology. Of course this cannot be correct because at this time the rapture would have already occurred, and the church would not be present on earth.
John MacArthur gets it right.
11: 1 a measuring rod. This was a hollow, bamboo-like cane plant that grew in the Jordan Valley. Because of its light weight and rigidity, it was commonly used as a measuring rod (cf. Eze 40: 3, 5). Measuring the temple signified God’s ownership of it (cf. 21: 15; Zec 2: 1– 5). the temple of God. Refers to the Holy of Holies and the Holy Place, not the entire temple complex (cf. v. 2). A rebuilt temple will exist during the time of the Tribulation (Da 9: 27; 12: 11; Mt 24: 15; 2Th 2: 4). altar. The reference to worshipers suggests this is the bronze altar in the courtyard, not the incense altar in the Holy Place, since only the priests were permitted inside the Holy Place (cf. Lk 1: 8– 10). † 11: 2 court which is outside. The court of the Gentiles, separated from the inner court in the Herodian temple by a low wall. Gentiles were forbidden to enter the inner court on penalty of death. That John is instructed not to measure the outer court symbolizes God’s rejection of the unbelieving Gentiles who have oppressed His covenant people. tread under foot the holy city. Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome all oppressed Jerusalem in ancient times (cf. 2Ki 25: 8– 10; Ps 79: 1; Is 63: 18; La 1: 10).
This verse refers to the future devastating destruction and oppression of Jerusalem by the forces of the Antichrist. forty-two months. This 3 1/ 2 year period covers the second half of the Tribulation and coincides with the visibly evil career of the Antichrist (v. 3; 12: 6; 13: 5). During this same time, the Jews will be sheltered by God in the wilderness (12: 6, 14). † 11: 3 two witnesses. Individuals granted special power and authority by God to preach a message of judgment and salvation during the second half of the Tribulation. The OT required two or more witnesses to confirm testimony (cf. Dt 17: 6; 19: 15; Mt 18: 16; Jn 8: 17; Heb 10: 28), and these two prophets will be the culmination of God’s testimony to Israel: a message of judgment from God and of His gracious offer of the gospel to all who will repent and believe. twelve hundred and sixty days. Forty-two months or 3 1/ 2 years (cf. 12: 6; 13: 5; see note on v. 2). sackcloth. Coarse, rough cloth made from goat or camel hair. Wearing garments made from it expressed penitence, humility, and mourning (cf. Ge 37: 34; 2Sa 3: 31; 2Ki 6: 30; 19: 1; Est 4: 1; Is 22: 12; Jer 6: 26; Mt 11: 21). The witnesses are mourning because of the wretched wickedness of the world, God’s judgment on it, and the desecration of the temple and the holy city by the Antichrist.
MacArthur, John (2006-04-11). The MacArthur Study Bible, NASB
When the Temple will be rebuilt is anybody's guess, but nobody that I have read believes it has anything to do with the antichrist covenant. I have read that the Jews have already fabricated the new Temple so that it can be put up very quickly. I don't know if this is true or not but if it is I would believe it would still take some time to construct considering the preparation that will be required before sitting the foundation.
Defacto:
--- Quote from: biblebuf on January 01, 2017, 11:23:05 am ---Hello again Defacto
Are you now saying that you meant to say United States Army Air Corp when you said "USAAF Air Corp"? That is the point I tried to make to you, but you are stuck with the inability to take any corrective criticism, you seem to take it as an assault on your service. You know when I tell people that the Army (with the help of the Air Force) dropped out of a C-130 over Turkey in 1965 I do not feel that my service is being called into question when they say "but Turkey is part of NATO", they are looking for an explanation not making an accusation.
You added to my post just as you add to the to the scripture to come up with your interpretation of Dan 9. But good name calling Defacto.
--- End quote ---
Biblebuf,
The U.S. designation for the Army Air Corp, was the United States Army Air Force. USAAF for short. Stop arguing with a veteran who served for them and do a little research on your own.
Defacto
Defacto:
--- Quote from: macuser on January 01, 2017, 02:23:29 pm ---Hello Defacto happy new year to you and all the board!
I can give you a thousand theologians That don't believe in Jesus, a thousand theologians that do believe in Jesus but not that He was the Christ, a thousand theologians that believe that Christ was the Archangel Michael , a thousand theologians that don't believe that the Son and Father are not ONE.
So what does it mean? Did you know that Gill, the only man I know that has written a commintery on every verse in the Bible, disagrees with you?
Have a great 2017!
Mac
--- End quote ---
Hi macuser,
Happy new year to you. Yes, that is whar happened to Jesus. There were many who didn't elieve him either.
Defacto
Defacto:
--- Quote from: Fat on January 01, 2017, 06:31:54 pm ---Revelation 11:1
John Gill and John Darby commentaries use replacement theology to explain the Temple actually being the Church.
Many commentaries claim the reference to the Temple is the spiritual church of God's elect. Another form of replacement theology. Of course this cannot be correct because at this time the rapture would have already occurred, and the church would not be present on earth.
John MacArthur gets it right.
11: 1 a measuring rod. This was a hollow, bamboo-like cane plant that grew in the Jordan Valley. Because of its light weight and rigidity, it was commonly used as a measuring rod (cf. Eze 40: 3, 5). Measuring the temple signified God’s ownership of it (cf. 21: 15; Zec 2: 1– 5). the temple of God. Refers to the Holy of Holies and the Holy Place, not the entire temple complex (cf. v. 2). A rebuilt temple will exist during the time of the Tribulation (Da 9: 27; 12: 11; Mt 24: 15; 2Th 2: 4). altar. The reference to worshipers suggests this is the bronze altar in the courtyard, not the incense altar in the Holy Place, since only the priests were permitted inside the Holy Place (cf. Lk 1: 8– 10). † 11: 2 court which is outside. The court of the Gentiles, separated from the inner court in the Herodian temple by a low wall. Gentiles were forbidden to enter the inner court on penalty of death. That John is instructed not to measure the outer court symbolizes God’s rejection of the unbelieving Gentiles who have oppressed His covenant people. tread under foot the holy city. Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome all oppressed Jerusalem in ancient times (cf. 2Ki 25: 8– 10; Ps 79: 1; Is 63: 18; La 1: 10).
This verse refers to the future devastating destruction and oppression of Jerusalem by the forces of the Antichrist. forty-two months. This 3 1/ 2 year period covers the second half of the Tribulation and coincides with the visibly evil career of the Antichrist (v. 3; 12: 6; 13: 5). During this same time, the Jews will be sheltered by God in the wilderness (12: 6, 14). † 11: 3 two witnesses. Individuals granted special power and authority by God to preach a message of judgment and salvation during the second half of the Tribulation. The OT required two or more witnesses to confirm testimony (cf. Dt 17: 6; 19: 15; Mt 18: 16; Jn 8: 17; Heb 10: 28), and these two prophets will be the culmination of God’s testimony to Israel: a message of judgment from God and of His gracious offer of the gospel to all who will repent and believe. twelve hundred and sixty days. Forty-two months or 3 1/ 2 years (cf. 12: 6; 13: 5; see note on v. 2). sackcloth. Coarse, rough cloth made from goat or camel hair. Wearing garments made from it expressed penitence, humility, and mourning (cf. Ge 37: 34; 2Sa 3: 31; 2Ki 6: 30; 19: 1; Est 4: 1; Is 22: 12; Jer 6: 26; Mt 11: 21). The witnesses are mourning because of the wretched wickedness of the world, God’s judgment on it, and the desecration of the temple and the holy city by the Antichrist.
MacArthur, John (2006-04-11). The MacArthur Study Bible, NASB
When the Temple will be rebuilt is anybody's guess, but nobody that I have read believes it has anything to do with the antichrist covenant. I have read that the Jews have already fabricated the new Temple so that it can be put up very quickly. I don't know if this is true or not but if it is I would believe it would still take some time to construct considering the preparation that will be required before sitting the foundation.
--- End quote ---
Very wel documented, fat. If you have read pevious posts on this thread, you've probably seen where I disagree with you in the time frame of the two witnesses, being in the first 3.5 years of the 7 year tribulation, rather than the second 3.5 years of it. The reason being, that in Rev.13:5, the Antichrist [beast out of the sea] will continue for 42 months, which follows the text in Rev.11:1-3.
Another point I would like to bring up, is the fact that the "he" of Dan.9:27, the Antichrist, confirms a seven year, firm agreement, i.e. covenant. It is not one that he necessarily makes himself.
Happy new year to you.
Defacto
Fat:
--- Quote from: Defacto on January 01, 2017, 07:51:39 pm ---
Very wel documented, fat. If you have read pevious posts on this thread, you've probably seen where I disagree with you in the time frame of the two witnesses, being in the first 3.5 years of the 7 year tribulation, rather than the second 3.5 years of it. The reason being, that in Rev.13:5, the Antichrist [beast out of the sea] will continue for 42 months, which follows the text in Rev.11:1-3.
Another point I would like to bring up, is the fact that the "he" of Dan.9:27, the Antichrist, confirms a seven year, firm agreement, i.e. covenant. It is not one that he necessarily makes himself.
Happy new year to you.
Defacto
--- End quote ---
We don't really disagree on the two wetnesses, I believe that they will be at the first half of the 7 years. When I was saying that "John MacArthur gets it right", I was referring to the Temple, a physical Temple, we know it will be present during the tribulation. It is because of the authority of two wetnesses that the sacrifice and offering can occur in the Temple. The question that we have no answer for, is the Temple built before the rapture or overnight after the rapture?
About the wetnesses
David Pepe
--- Quote ---The key to understanding Daniel 9:27 is found in the 1260 day ministry of the Two Witnesses, which takes place in the first half of the seven year tribulation. Leave them out or diminish them and the whole prophetic text of Daniel 9:27 falls apart.
Two Witnesses who will begin the re-institution of the daily scarifies and oblations...
--- End quote ---
J. Dwight Pentecost
--- Quote ---Dan 9:27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. ”
As J. Dwight Pentecost explains, "This expression refers to the entire Levitical system, which suggests that Israel will have restored that system in the first half of the 70th 'seven.'" Antichrist will replace the legitimate, God-honoring Jewish worship system, which only the two witnesses can inaugurate, with his own system, namely, the abomination of desolation
--- End quote ---
Something else we should consider on the time line considering the two witnesses, there will be no one to wetness to in the last half.
Matt. 24:15-21
--- Quote ---15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
--- End quote ---
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