DIVISIONS AMONG YOU

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DIVISIONS AMONG YOU

 1 Corinthians 1:10. Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment.
11. For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe's [people], that there are quarrels among you.


1 Corinthians 6:4. So if you have law courts dealing with matters of this life, do you appoint them as judges who are of no account in the church?
5. I say [this] to your shame. [Is it] so, [that] there is not among you one wise man who will be able to decide between his brethren,
6. but brother goes to law with brother, and that before unbelievers?
7. Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded?


1 Corinthians 11:18. For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that divisions exist among you; and in part I believe it.
19. For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you.
20. Therefore when you meet together, it is not to eat the Lord's Supper,


1 Corinthians 12:25  That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.


Acts 15:37. Barnabas wanted to take John, called Mark, along with them also.
38. But Paul kept insisting that they should not take him along who had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not gone with them to the work.
39. And there occurred such a sharp disagreement that they separated from one another, and Barnabas took Mark with him and sailed away to Cyprus.


James 3:13. Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom.
14. But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and [so] lie against the truth.
15. This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic.
16. For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing.


Mark 9:35. Sitting down, He called the twelve and said to them, "If anyone wants to be first, he shall be last of all and servant of all."

[Fat]

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Things never seem to change, reading these verses it looks much like today's divided church. We argue about everything from music to translations.

[Iconoclast]

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The real question is how can believers interact with each other when they discover differences in how they understand the scripture?

Should they begin to question the other person's salvation?

Should they misrepresent what the other person says?

Or should they obey 2tim2:24-26?

[Fat]

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Should the Church allow the obvious misrepresentation of scripture just to be friendly or politically correct. Ask Eve about Satan’s ability to use half truths in a dealing with God’s word.

[Iconoclast]

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Should the Church allow the obvious misrepresentation of scripture just to be friendly or politically correct. Ask Eve about Satan’s ability to use half truths in a dealing with God’s word.

In a local church setting the elders are to guard the flock.
Many churches have a statement of faith or historic confession of faith to let visitors know what they can expect to be taught and preached at that church.

On a message board you are going to get different views, that is certain.

No one,and I mean no one approaches their keyboard and says...i am going to post error today.

If no one is using profanity, or deny the deity of Jesus Christ  they should post what they believe and let others interact in a healthy way..like this;2tim2
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

[Fat]

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In a local church setting the elders are to guard the flock.
Many churches have a statement of faith or historic confession of faith to let visitors know what they can expect to be taught and preached at that church.

On a message board you are going to get different views, that is certain.

No one,and I mean no one approaches their keyboard and says...i am going to post error today.

If no one is using profanity, or deny the deity of Jesus Christ  they should post what they believe and let others interact in a healthy way..like this;2tim2
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

We believe that the Bible is the Word of God trumps tradition or modern day prophets (those coming after Christ). Anytime tradition or prophecy disagrees with Scripture it has little value in a biblical discussion.

The word church in the bible refers to an assembly of believers. (Strong G1577) Is this forum an assembly of believers?

Should the forum allow the teaching of the Watchtower? Of course not Christ is not the Archangel Michael. What about the teaching of the Catholic Church, can salvation come from absolution given by a priest, of course not. What about the teaching all the churches they claim to be the one true church and claim that only membership in their sects will give salvation. Most of these churches except for the Jehovah's Witnesses believe in the Trinity, but their gospel is not the gospel that Paul taught.

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

I have said it many times that political correctness is a cancer in the Church as well as the Nation.

[Iconoclast]

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So....if a RC comes in and offers his sincere beliefs of a works based salvation....he is not going to hurt us. We then have an opportunity to offer correct teachings on grace...
Same with a trinity denying cultist. They also are devoid of the Holy Spirit so we are once again called upon to speak the truth of the gospel towards their damnation, or their salvation.
2 cor :14-17

[Fat]

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So....if a RC comes in and offers his sincere beliefs of a works based salvation....he is not going to hurt us. We then have an opportunity to offer correct teachings on grace...
Same with a trinity denying cultist. They also are devoid of the Holy Spirit so we are once again called upon to speak the truth of the gospel towards their damnation, or their salvation.
2 cor :14-17

That's not at all what is being said here. You always give the gospel to anyone willing to listen, but there are those unwilling to listen and are only here to obstruct the truth. Christ called the Pharisees for what they were, he didn't play nice to anyone who is not willing to listen. When he was asked by a Pharisee about his preachings he explained the gospel and the rebirth, but he did not argue his teachings with those who did not want to understand them or even listen to them.

If you surf around on this form you find many threads with those were unwilling to listen but only want to spread their faults truth. Eventually those threads are shut down, some are even eliminated. You being a good Calvinist you know that God's elect will hear His calling and they will respond to his word.

And if any place will not welcome you or listen to you, leave that place and shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them.

I have no idea what your salvation message is because you seem to be focused on one issue, it is not a issue of salvation so it really doesn't bother me one way or another. If it appears that your Jesus is not my Jesus then I will take issue with you. But as far as your debate that you are trying to stoke here about the kingdom concerning the rapture, you are wrong and you are misrepresenting what the Scriptures are actually teaching. I think what you're going to find here on this forum that you will be talking to yourself, and if you preach replacement theology you will probably find your post being deleted.

[Iconoclast]

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Fat,
Thanks for your response. Although the topic is on divisions you went to several areas of discussion.

You mentioned  about previous posters who were...unwilling  to listen.

Listen to who? You? Are you the fountain of all biblical knowledge?
Is there any area of doctrine that  you have changed your position on?
You assert things saying things like.....you are wrong. Yet, I have not seen you actually deal direct with any scripture and offer your point of view.
Is it possible....you are wrong? Are you infallible in your views? You have not spoken about the issues you seem to be questioning me on.
I think I can deal with whatever you have to offer.
I would like if you use the Scripture to discuss these things...not just offer random thoughts that are questionable speculation.

[Fat]

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Fat,
Thanks for your response. Although the topic is on divisions you went to several areas of discussion.

You mentioned  about previous posters who were...unwilling  to listen.

Listen to who? You? Are you the fountain of all biblical knowledge?
Is there any area of doctrine that  you have changed your position on?
You assert things saying things like.....you are wrong. Yet, I have not seen you actually deal direct with any scripture and offer your point of view.
Is it possible....you are wrong? Are you infallible in your views? You have not spoken about the issues you seem to be questioning me on.
I think I can deal with whatever you have to offer.
I would like if you use the Scripture to discuss these things...not just offer random thoughts that are questionable speculation.

Hello Icon
I believe You claim to be a Calvinist if so you believe that the Spirit is solely responsible to drawing you to your salvation ( John 6). You were taught by God (also John 6). Yet you continue to call on the confessions of men to testify to your biblical claims.

If you believe that the author of the Scriptures was strong enough to lead you to Christ why is He not strong enough to help you to understand His words?

God’s word is what is infallible and it has no conflict in them. Your perception of coming events is not biblical and worthless for consideration. There are still many Mysteries that I don’t have the answers for but they will be revealed at the time the Lord wants me to understand them. For instance it is clear in the Scriptures that the rapture will occur before the Antichrist is known, but how long will he be on the world seen before we can recognize him for who he is. This leads to the possibility of a midtrib rapture.

This is an iPhone pot so please forgive my fat finger typing 😩

[Iconoclast]

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Hello Icon
I believe You claim to be a Calvinist if so you believe that the Spirit is solely responsible to drawing you to your salvation ( John 6). You were taught by God (also John 6). Yet you continue to call on the confessions of men to testify to your biblical claims.

If you believe that the author of the Scriptures was strong enough to lead you to Christ why is He not strong enough to help you to understand His words?

God’s word is what is infallible and it has no conflict in them. Your perception of coming events is not biblical and worthless for consideration. There are still many Mysteries that I don’t have the answers for but they will be revealed at the time the Lord wants me to understand them. For instance it is clear in the Scriptures that the rapture will occur before the Antichrist is known, but how long will he be on the world seen before we can recognize him for who he is. This leads to the possibility of a midtrib rapture.

This is an iPhone pot so please forgive my fat finger typing 😩

Is

God has given pastors and teachers to the church . Eph4 these men study of the scripture and able to instruct the flock. Your disdain for confessions of faith is without Merit.
 You assume that these men who got together to write the confessions carefully studying the Greek and Hebrew and coming up with the answers as you're suggesting that they also didn't have the Spirit and couldn't look at the scripture and come up with scriptural teaching from God.
You know all things?
 I see many times  people who think now it's just me and my Bible me and the Spirit .
yeah I got everything and yet they come up with all these theories and novelties that are nowhere held in scripture.
The fact that there's a historic Faith that's been passed down, you want to just ignore and just make up your own teaching is that what it is.
 Another fact is that they have historically been other positions on scripture,different from the one you currently hold.
 which I was first taught was the truth.
 I know the in's and outs of it .
I know the whole teaching and yet that is a novelty which didn't exist before the 1800s with the Plymouth Brethren and Darby and all these other things.
 Scofield bible coming along later Dallas Seminary I know the whole thing there buddy and you know for you to just suggest like oh you got it you got the truth you know everything is a little bit let's say less than humble on your part.
You have every right to hold whatever belief you think the scripture teaches .
just as some of these other men have every right to think what they believe is what the scripture teaches because the scripture only teaches one thing and at the end of the day all of us have some Error.
I hate to burst your bubble on this.
 so for you to just blow people off  who do not agree with you and your own little circle you know it's like the people that pray God bless my four and no more .
That's not going to get it done. You're  discounting teachers, pastors and teachers that have been given to the church as a gift by God to help instruct the Saints in the work of ministry.
Do you listen to sermons each week when you go to church or do you preach yourself. Well as soon as you do it unless the person is just reading scripture he's also giving his interpretation or his teaching or his idea what the teaching is some of which may be right and some of it maybe contain error so you know you're not thinking out some of these statements you're making. You're willing to attack but without backing up what you were saying 
 I could just turn around and say to you well you're posting error left and right I can go back and reread many of your post and pick out things the post before on what the church was was incorrect I have for starters so we could work on that if you want but you know the idea of bible discussion is that people can bring in the Bible from whatever source they think has truth.  if you're so convinced of the error of it it shouldn't be a problem for you to scripturally show correction. In  fact it will be your duty to offer biblical correction to what you see is error. I think the reason we don't see that is because I don't think you're scriptural view is  going to hold water and you don't like that someone could even question anything you hold so that could be very difficult for you.

[Fat]

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Is given God has given pastors and teachers to the church these men study of the scripture and able to instruct the flock. You're the stain for confessions is without Merit as you assume that these men who got together right the confessions carefully studying the Greek and Hebrew and coming up with the answers as you're suggesting that they also didn't have the spirit and couldn't look at the scripture and come up with scriptural teaching from God. You know all I see many times are a people who think I'll okay now it's just me and my Bible me and the spirit yeah got everything and yet they come up with all these theories and novelties that are nowhere held in scripture. The fact that there's a historic Faith that's been passed down you you want to just ignore and just make up your own teaching is that what it is. Another fact is that they have historically been other positions on an X and the one you currently hold which I was first thought I know the ins and out of it I know the whole teaching and yet that is a novelty which didn't exist before the 1800s with the Plymouth Brethren and Darby and all these other things Scofield bible coming along later Dallas Seminary I know the whole thing there buddy and you know it for you to just suggest like oh you got it you got the truth you know everything is a little bit let's say less than humble on your part.
You have every right to hold whatever belief you think the scripture teaches .
just as some of these other men have every right to think what they believe is what the scripture teaches because the scripture only teaches one thing and at the end of the day all of us have some Error.
I hate to burst your bubble on this.
 so for you to just blow people off  who do not agree with you and your own little circle you know it's like the people that pray God bless my four and no more .
that's not going to get it done. You're  discounting teachers, pastors and teachers that have been given to the church as a gift by God to help instruct the Saints in the work of ministry.
Do you listen to sermons each week when you go to church or do you preach yourself. Well as soon as you do it unless the person is just reading scripture he's also giving his interpretation or his teaching or his idea what the teaching is some of which may be right and some of it maybe contain error so you know you're not thinking out some of these statements you're making. You're willing to attack but without backing up what you were saying 
 I could just turn around and say to you well you're posting error left and right I can go back and reread many of your post and pick out things the post before on what the church was was incorrect I have for starters so we could work on that if you want but you know the idea of bible discussion is that people can bring in the Bible from whatever source they think has truth.  if you're so convinced of the error of it it shouldn't be a problem for you to scripturally show correction. In  fact it will be your duty to offer biblical correction to what you see is error. I think the reason we don't see that is because I don't think you're scriptural view is  going to hold water and you don't like that someone could even question anything you hold so that could be very difficult for you.

Hi again Icon
First of all I like to thank you for telling me what I think and what I believe.

Also it is great to know that I can depend on the writings and the teachings of the leadership of the church like Pope Francis, and organizations like Jehovah's Witnesses and Latter Day Saints for true representation of the meaning of Scripture. All of course having spent many years trying to understanding the translations of the Greek and the Hebrew so that they could come to understand the meaning of the word of God.

I've always considered the confessions of men to be confessions of men, but then again I have always considered that when the Bible says nay it meant to say nay and when it says yes it means to say yes. I'm so glad that you have corrected me on that.

Now that you have taught me your beliefs and I have benefited so much from your instructions let's not communicate with each other so that I can take this all in while meditating on the words of our great church leaders.

 Shalom
Fat

[Iconoclast]

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Who mentioned the pope,jws or mormons?
Fat....why do you deflect away from the discussion?
Do you profess to be a Christian Fat?it says...Bible discussions...but it does not say what kind of discussions?

What church do you fellowship in?

Do they have a statement of faith?

Do you believe that Jesus is God?

Do you believe the Holy Spirit is God?

Is the Father God?

I have to search out your posts and see what you believe to be truth....

[Fat]

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Who mentioned the pope,jws or mormons?
Fat....why do you deflect away from the discussion?
Do you profess to be a Christian Fat?it says...Bible discussions...but it does not say what kind of discussions?

What church do you fellowship in?

Do they have a statement of faith?

Do you believe that Jesus is God?

Do you believe the Holy Spirit is God?

Is the Father God?

I have to search out your posts and see what you believe to be truth....

This what I believe:

John 1
1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2. He was in the beginning with God.
3. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
4. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
5. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
6. There came a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7. He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him.
8. He was not the Light, but [he came] to testify about the Light.
9. There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.
10. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
11. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.
12. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, [even] to those who believe in His name,
13. who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
14. And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

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Fat

I believe You claim to be a Calvinist if so you believe that the Spirit is solely responsible to drawing you to your salvation ( John 6). You were taught by God (also John 6). Yet you continue to call on the confessions of men to testify to your biblical claims.

I do think you would be hard pressed to attempt to offer better answers then the men who wrote these documents. If you notice these men are not offering worldly wisdom or philosophy, but they are offering truth based on scripture itself.

If you believe that the author of the Scriptures was strong enough to lead you to Christ why is He not strong enough to help you to understand His words?

God ordains the way and the means to communicate truth.

God’s word is what is infallible and it has no conflict in them

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Of course God's word is infallible, that is not the issue. No one man on earth has all truth.That is why we study, discuss, and debate.

Your perception of coming events is not biblical and worthless for consideration.

You do not even know what I believe on these things. I suspect you cannot answer, or correct what i offer so you find it easier to ignore  or explain away what is offered because you cannot deal with it.   Considering scripture is not" worthless for consideration"

There are still many Mysteries that I don’t have the answers for but they will be revealed at the time the Lord wants me to understand them.

Truth is already revealed. We need to search out what is offered. Closing your eyes, or putting your fingers in your ears, does not lead to increased learning.

For instance it is clear in the Scriptures that the rapture will occur before the Antichrist is known,

That is not clear. It might be in some book you are reading, but your statement as posted is not correct.

but how long will he be on the world seen before we can recognize him for who he is. This leads to the possibility of a midtrib rapture.

This is wild speculation on your part. I do not believe in censorship as long as you are not using profane speech , or being blasphemous.
You hold whatever you do until correction comes your way. No matter what a person holds, they need to offer scriptural support which can also be scripturally challenged.....that is what is healthy.
acts17:
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

This is an iPhone pot so please forgive my fat finger typing 😩

That is not a problem...sometimes I use voice to text and it comes out really bad,lol