Author Topic: John 17:3- Who is the God of Jesus Christ?  (Read 3550 times)

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theMadJW

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John 17:3- Who is the God of Jesus Christ?
« on: April 27, 2013, 03:06:22 PM »
John 17:3- And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.

biblebuf

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Re: John 17:3- Who is the God of Jesus Christ?
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2013, 03:44:05 PM »

to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, 'I AM (hayah) has sent me to you.'" Ex 3.14


Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." John 8.58


John 20:28 In answer Thomas said to him: “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him: “Because you have seen me have you believed? Happy are those who do not see and yet believe.” (NWT)

Father
Revelation1:8 “I am the Al′pha and the O‧me′ga,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.” (NWT)

Son
Revelation 22:13 I am the Al′pha and the O‧me′ga, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. (NWT)

"First and Last," "Alpha and Omega," "Beginning and End" are terms for God, yet Jesus used them to refer to Himself. Are you saying that Jesus was a false teacher?

theMadJW

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Re: John 17:3- Who is the God of Jesus Christ?
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2013, 04:54:39 PM »
The Old 'I Am' gambit.
A symbolic name God used only ONE TIME. (John was in Greek)
He proceeded to state what his REAL name was, is and will ALWAYS be-

Ex 3:14- And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
15- And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel,
Jehovah,
 the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of  Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you:
 this is my name FOREVER,
 and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Neither Judiasm, Koine Greek, nor the foul Trinity Dogma can change that.

FINALLY, the Name "Jesus" in Hebrew means "the Salvation of JEHOVAH"!



theMadJW

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Re: John 17:3- Who is the God of Jesus Christ?
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2013, 04:58:48 PM »
Ego Eime (translated deceptively as "I AM" at John 8:58) was used often by many others- such as Paul, Peter, Timothy, and even JUDAS!
Because it meant "I am, was, have been, and existed". Why don't the translators have THEM speaking e-bonics -"I AM"?


biblebuf

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Re: John 17:3- Who is the God of Jesus Christ?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2013, 05:05:05 PM »
The Old 'I Am' gambit.
A symbolic name God used only ONE TIME. (John was in Greek)
He proceeded to state what his REAL name was, is and will ALWAYS be-

Ex 3:14- And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
15- And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel,
Jehovah,
 the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of  Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you:
 this is my name FOREVER,
 and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Neither Judiasm, Koine Greek, nor the foul Trinity Dogma can change that.

FINALLY, the Name "Jesus" in Hebrew means "the Salvation of JEHOVAH"!

Please finish your post and address “I am the Al′pha and the O‧me′ga", and John 20:28.

theMadJW

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Re: John 17:3- Who is the God of Jesus Christ?
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2013, 05:09:23 PM »
Revelation is a symbolic vision one cannot understand without knowing God and Christ FIRST.
Jesus now shares many Titles that only God had previouisly.
It has NOTHING to do with the deceptive translation of John 8:58

theMadJW

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Did Satan tell Eve the...TRUTH?
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2013, 05:25:31 PM »
Is it TRUE we never really die?
That we have 'immortal' souls that float off?

If so, what meaning does the Reward of Eternal Life have?
"Resurrection"?

biblebuf

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Re: John 17:3- Who is the God of Jesus Christ?
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2013, 05:43:41 PM »
Revelation is a symbolic vision one cannot understand without knowing God and Christ FIRST.
Jesus now shares many Titles that only God had previouisly.
It has NOTHING to do with the deceptive translation of John 8:58

Quote
Jesus now shares many Titles that only God had previouisly.

And that's it, your deep study into the trinity? Symbolic vision. They share titles.


Phat posted a biblical question for JW's that has yet to be answerred by any of them, The Jehovah's Witnesses have a savior or do they have two saviors? you can find it at http://biblediscussion.org/index.php/topic,219.msg1673.html#msg1673

With all your hours of studding the Scripture I an sure you can set him straight in his fallacy.

Quote from: NWT
1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.2This one was in [the] beginning with God.3All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.

If the Word was with God in the beginning doesn't that mean that the Word was not created? Your translation has a few wholes in it.

biblebuf

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Re: Did Satan tell Eve the...TRUTH?
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2013, 07:20:52 PM »
Is it TRUE we never really die?
That we have 'immortal' souls that float off?

If so, what meaning does the Reward of Eternal Life have?
"Resurrection"?

Did God lie to Adam? "But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.” NWT

So death has to be defined, is the death of the body or death of the soul.

revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

 Matt 25:46 NWT
 And these will depart into everlasting cutting‐off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”

The actual text reads, "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
kai apeleusontai outoi eis kolasin aiwnion oi de dikaioi eis zwhn aiwnion


As for as the resurrection, did Christ lie?
John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." 20 The Jews then said, "It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days ?" 21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this ; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.

Quote from: NWT
19 In answer Jesus said to them: “Break down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”20Therefore the Jews said: “This temple was built in forty‐six years, and will you raise it up in three days?”21 But he was talking about the temple of his body.

JB Horn

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Re: Did Satan tell Eve the...TRUTH?
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2013, 11:05:45 PM »
Is it TRUE we never really die?
That we have 'immortal' souls that float off?

If so, what meaning does the Reward of Eternal Life have?
"Resurrection"?

Christ body was never corrupted so when he was resurrected he still carried the wounds of his death, as your translation teaches us.

Luke 24 NWT
39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; feel me and see, because a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as YOU behold that I have.”40[[And as he said this he showed them his hands and his feet.]]41But while they were still not believing for sheer joy and were wondering, he said to them: “Do YOU have something there to eat?”42And they handed him a piece of broiled fish;43and he took it and ate it before their eyes.

What your translation also teaches us that man's body is corrupt and he will be given a new body that is uncorrupt when he is risen.


1 Cor. 15 NWT
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised up in incorruption.43It is sown in dishonor, it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised up in power.44It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one.45It is even so written: “The first man Adam became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life‐giving spirit.46Nevertheless, the first is, not that which is spiritual, but that which is physical, afterward that which is spiritual.47The first man is out of the earth and made of dust; the second man is out of heaven.48As the one made of dust [is], so those made of dust [are] also; and as the heavenly one [is], so those who are heavenly [are] also.49And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly one.

JB Horn

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Re: John 17:3- Who is the God of Jesus Christ?
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2013, 11:14:30 PM »
Your translation seems to conterdict it's self.


John 1

1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.2 This one was in [the] beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.

Isa 45:5
 I am Jehovah, and there is no one else. With the exception of me there is no God. I shall closely gird you, although you have not known me,

macuser

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Re: John 17:3- Who is the God of Jesus Christ?
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2013, 11:43:51 PM »
Your translation seems to conterdict it's self.


John 1

1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.2 This one was in [the] beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.

Isa 45:5
 I am Jehovah, and there is no one else. With the exception of me there is no God. I shall closely gird you, although you have not known me,

It's full of conterdictions.

Isaiah 44:24 This is what Jehovah has said, your Repurchaser and the Former of you from the belly: “I, Jehovah, am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the earth. Who was with me?

So He was by Himself or maybe not.

Genesis 1:26 And God went on to say: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth.”

John 1:1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.2This one was in [the] beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.

Here they refer to the Holy Spirit and God as the same.

Acts 5:3 But Peter said: “An‧a‧ni′as, why has Satan emboldened you to play false to the holy spirit and to hold back secretly some of the price of the field? 4 As long as it remained with you did it not remain yours, and after it was sold did it not continue in your control? Why was it that you purposed such a deed as this in your heart? You have played false, not to men, but to God.”


The Pharisees denied the Trinity and the Deity of Christ, as do the JW's.
The Pharisees denied  the physical resurrection of Christ and salvation by grace alone, as do the JW's.

theMadJW

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Re: John 17:3- Who is the God of Jesus Christ?
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2013, 08:57:42 AM »
Isaiah 44:24 This is what Jehovah has said, your Repurchaser and the Former of you from the belly: “I, Jehovah, am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the earth. Who was with me?

So He was by Himself or maybe not.


He was talking to Israel- who knew NOTHING about God having a son- and was comparing Himself to all the false gods they were starting to worship, believing that THEY had made all things. Your church teaches you NOTHING...

Genesis 1:26 And God went on to say: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth.”

Jesus was there, as well as many angels. Just how many Gods are IN your Twinity?

John 1:1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. 2- This one was in [the] beginning with God. 3- All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.

So, the Word (later named "Jesus") was with God. SPOKE for God, thus "was' God- as Moses was. (Ex 7:1). Your point?

Here they refer to the Holy Spirit and God as the same.

Acts 5:3- But Peter said: “An‧a‧ni′as, why has Satan emboldened you to play false to the holy spirit and to hold back secretly some of the price of the field? 4- As long as it remained with you did it not remain yours, and after it was sold did it not continue in your control? Why was it that you purposed such a deed as this in your heart? You have played false, not to men, but to God.”

When you read the word "spirit", you can mislead yourself thinking of the church-fabricated Nameless Ghost-God- or UNDERSTAND what's meant by thinking of it as it LITERALLY MEANS in the Hebrew and Greek: "breath, wind". It was the holy Breath of God they were lying against. Jehovah never has,nor ever will become human- as His son once did. Thus he speaks, empowers and comforts thru the unseen POWER illustrated by breath and wind.


The Pharisees denied the Trinity and the Deity of Christ, as do the JW's.
The Pharisees denied  the physical resurrection of Christ and salvation by grace alone, as do the JW's.


Do you understand ANYTHING????
JESUS denied being God! The Pharisees were the ones claiming he TAUGHT that! (Jesus said God SENT him, and COMMANDED him)
They didn't WANT to believe he was resurrected.


theMadJW

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Re: Did Satan tell Eve the...TRUTH?
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2013, 09:25:33 AM »
biblebuf-
Did God lie to Adam? "But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.”

No. Churchianity makes Him a liar. Ever hear about the DAY of Noah? Jesus' DAY? The DAY God made all things?

So death has to be defined, is the death of the body or death of the soul.

Churchianity and other religions try to change the definition. Death means one is NO LONGER ALIVE. Thus, God's arrangement of a future RESURRECTION (RETURNING to life)
Gen 2: 7 shows that the person is a soul- not that one was inserted.


revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

VERY GOOD! See what the 'Lake' symbolizes?

 Matt 25:46 NWT
 And these will depart into everlasting cutting‐off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”

The actual text reads, "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
kai apeleusontai outoi eis kolasin aiwnion oi de dikaioi eis zwhn aiwnion

BINGO! Eternal Death- destruction is the punishment, and Eternal Life (no 'immortal' souls) is the Reward / Gift!

As for as the resurrection, did Christ lie?
John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." 20 The Jews then said, "It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days ?" 21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this ; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.

Silly churchoid- Jesus used the word "Temple" in this illustration- WHY?
If he was ALIVE those 3 days- why would he NEED a Resurrection (returning to life)?
If he was DEAD (no longer alive) those 3 days- how COULD he resurrect himself?

TheBible- and Jesus HIMSELF- says everywhere else that it was GOD who resurrected him.

Connect the dots!



Zant Law

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Re: John 17:3- Who is the God of Jesus Christ?
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2013, 11:18:51 AM »
The Old 'I Am' gambit.
A symbolic name God used only ONE TIME. (John was in Greek)
He proceeded to state what his REAL name was, is and will ALWAYS be-

Ex 3:14- And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
15- And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel,
Jehovah,
 the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of  Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you:
 this is my name FOREVER,
 and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Neither Judiasm, Koine Greek, nor the foul Trinity Dogma can change that.

FINALLY, the Name "Jesus" in Hebrew means "the Salvation of JEHOVAH"!

It appears you have the luxury when to declare symbolism as nonrelevant and when to declare it relevant.

The Catholic Church gives sole authority to the interpretation of the Bible to itself, that be in the Vatican. The Mormon church gives sole authority for interpreting the Bible to the Mormon prophet.
My church (assembly of believers) gives the authority for interpretation of the Scriptures to the Holy Ghost.
So my question is who do you Jehovah's Witnesses look to for interpretation of the Scriptures.

P.S. Jesus = "Jehovah is salvation"

Which brings up another inconsistency of your translation. How does your watchtower explain the contradiction in these two verses?


John 14:6  (NWT)
6 Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 6:65  (NWT)
So he went on to say: “This is why I have said to YOU, No one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” 

This inconsistency does not exist in any other English translation of the holy Scriptures that I'm aware of. It is amazing that all the problems and inconsistencies in your Bible come from the changing, or adding, one letter to one verse in John. Many inconsistencies of been pointed out here to you and you stumbled very badly in trying to answer the problems that your translation has. It's amazing what Satan has done with one letter, he is stolen so many souls from Christ.