Divine Inspiration

[calluna]

How many of His sheep were in the audience He just addresses?

A small percentage, most not even born. Jesus did not teach that only those he was speaking to were the elect.
 

Again Christ said:  Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

And everyone can do that. Indeed, it is duty for all.

The above scriptures.

Peter knew that Jesus was the Christ before he was crucified and raised. Now, 'the sign of Jonah' is for all. So all who hear the gospel, or read it in Scripture, are taught by God. All that remains is to make the choice of following him or opposing him.

[Fat]

A small percentage, most not even born. Jesus did not teach that only those he was speaking to were the elect.

But only the elect understood and that is what He was saying in Matt 13:11
 

And everyone can do that. Indeed, it is duty for all.

So you're saying all that heard was also taught by the Father?

Peter knew that Jesus was the Christ before he was crucified and raised. Now, 'the sign of Jonah is for all'. So all who hear the gospel, or read it in Scripture, are taught by God. All that remains is to make the choice of following him or opposing him.

Again Christ said:  Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

He did not say Some.

You know calluna I have backed up my argument with Scripture and I have let you use your opinion to make your argument because I believe it is important to understand where you are coming from. But we have come to the point where I need to know where your opinion is coming from so please start using Scripture to make your points.

[calluna]

But only the elect understood

And that included and includes people other than those he addressed.

So you're saying all that heard was also taught by the Father?

All that today hear (the full gospel of salvation) are taught by the Father. Taught more than is wanted, in most cases.

[Fat]

And that included and includes people other than those he addressed.

Of the elect, yes.

All that today hear (the full gospel of salvation) are taught by the Father. Taught more than is wanted, in most cases.

Please back this up with scripture.
What you are saying is that if you hear the gospel you are saved. John 6:45

[calluna]

What you are saying is that if you hear the gospel you are saved. John 6:45

On the contrary, hearing the gospel is only hearing presentation of choice to accept or refuse salvation.

'He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet, to all who received him, to those who trusted in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.' Jn 1:11-12

[Fat]

All that today hear (the full gospel of salvation) are taught by the Father. Taught more than is wanted, in most cases.

Please back this up with scripture.

'He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet, to all who received him, to those who trusted in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.' Jn 1:11-12

2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

[calluna]

2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine

Indeed, and it came very soon after Paul wrote that, and has continued to this day. The most difficult spiritual concept for humanity to come to terms with is that of choice. The Spirit convicts of human sin; of the righteousness of Christ; and of the judgement of Christ on the sinful life. So, while all men are drawn to Christ because of the offer of free salvation, for many there is a cost, that of autonomy, because the will is selfish, and the mind is fearful, rather than trusting; and Satan persuades that there are disadvantages to leading a life guided by the creator's Spirit. So, rather than face a choice to accept or refuse salvation, men attempt either to put the making of a decision out of their minds, and live more or less hedonistic lives, or attempt to by-pass choice, and claim to possess faith, living more or less moral lives, at least outwardly.

[Fat]

So, while all men are drawn to Christ because of the offer of free salvation

Scripture please.

[calluna]

Scripture please.

'"But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."' Jn 12:32 NIV

[Fat]

'"But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."' Jn 12:32 NIV

This is end time prophesy, please read in context. The NIV uses the word when but you'll find (and I'm sure you're aware of) that most translations use the word if. The word used was ejavn, Strong's Number 1437.

31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon
 Strong's Number:   1437    
Original Word   Word Origin
ejavn   from (1487) and (302)
Transliterated Word   TDNT Entry
Ean   None
Phonetic Spelling   Parts of Speech
eh-an'      Conjunction
 Definition
if, in case
 
 King James Word Usage - Total: 275
if 200, whosoever + (3769)&version=kjv 14, whatsoever + (3739) 16, though 14, miscellaneous 31



 

[calluna]

This is end time prophesy

'"But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself." He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.' Jn 12:32-33 NIV

[Fat]

'"But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself." He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.' Jn 12:32-33 NIV

I agree that is why He said it, but the translation is still wrong.

31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me

Now is John 32:33 talking about the same All as John 6? One is talking about Christ drawing and the others say Father.

John 6:44
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

[calluna]

'I agree that is why He said it'

Fine.

[Fat]

Good by calluna, I hope you see the fallacy of Arminianism, it is against what the Lord has taught us.

Welcome to the board.