German Catholics lose church rights for unpaid tax

[Zant Law]

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Praying to saints is not worship, it is a request for prayers to the righteous.

The Catholic Church explicitly forbids worshiping anyone but God.

Sorry, you are wrong again.  It would be better if you didn't try to speak for the Catholic Church when it is clear you don't know or understand Catholic doctrine.

Holy Mary,
help those in need,
give strength to the weak,
comfort the sorrowful,
pray for God's people,
assist the clergy,
intercede for religious.
Mary all who seek your help
experience your unfailing protection.
Amen.


O Mary, recall the solemn moment when Jesus,
your divine Son, dying on the Cross,
confided us to your maternal care.
You are our Mother, we desire ever to remain your devout children.
Let us therefore feel the effects of your powerful intercession with Jesus Christ.
make your Name again glorious in the shrine once renowned throughout England by your visits, favours, and many miracles.
Pray, O holy Mother of God, for the conversion of England, restoration of the sick, consolation for the afflicted, repentance of sinners, peace to the departed.
O blessed Mary, Mother of God, our Lady of Walsingham, intercede for us.
Amen.
http://www.marypages.com/PrayerstoMary.htm

That is what we call worship in the real world and it is blasphemy to Christ and the Christian faith.

[chestertonrules]

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Holy Mary,
help those in need,
give strength to the weak,
comfort the sorrowful,
pray for God's people,
assist the clergy,
intercede for religious.
Mary all who seek your help
experience your unfailing protection.
Amen.


O Mary, recall the solemn moment when Jesus,
your divine Son, dying on the Cross,
confided us to your maternal care.
You are our Mother, we desire ever to remain your devout children.
Let us therefore feel the effects of your powerful intercession with Jesus Christ.
make your Name again glorious in the shrine once renowned throughout England by your visits, favours, and many miracles.
Pray, O holy Mother of God, for the conversion of England, restoration of the sick, consolation for the afflicted, repentance of sinners, peace to the departed.
O blessed Mary, Mother of God, our Lady of Walsingham, intercede for us.
Amen.
http://www.marypages.com/PrayerstoMary.htm

That is what we call worship in the real world and it is blasphemy to Christ and the Christian faith.

You can call it a dead dog, but it won't change reality.

Do you know what it means to intercede?

Exposing your ignorance for the world to read doesn't advance your argument.  Sorry.

[Zant Law]

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You can call it a dead dog, but it won't change reality.

Do you know what it means to intercede?

Exposing your ignorance for the world to read doesn't advance your argument.  Sorry.

To each his own.

1 John 2:1 NAS
[Christ Is Our Advocate] My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous ;

[chestertonrules]

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To each his own.

1 John 2:1 NAS
[Christ Is Our Advocate] My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous ;

No kidding.  And the sky is blue!

Do you think this means that we shouldn't pray for each other?

[Zant Law]

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No kidding.  And the sky is blue!

Do you think this means that we shouldn't pray for each other?

Pray for each other not to each other. I can't understand why you are incapable to understand the deference.

[chestertonrules]

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Pray for each other not to each other. I can't understand why you are incapable to understand the deference.

Pray just means request.  Get a dictionary.

When Christians pray to the saints they are making a prayer request just as we might do with a friend still here on earth.


FYI:

970 "Mary's function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin's salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."513 "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."514

[Zant Law]

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970 "Mary's function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin's salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."513 "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."514

Can't find this in the Bible, can you source it please?

[chestertonrules]

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Can't find this in the Bible, can you source it please?

This is from the Catechism.

I posted it so that others reading this would know that you were misrepresenting Catholic teaching.

I'm not sure why you think it helps your case to lie about what the Catholic Church teaches.

I'm sure that there are some legitimate differences in doctrine between our faiths.  Why don't you focus on those?

[Fat]

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Why would anyone want to pray through Mary when Christ gives you a direct line to our Father?

Prayer Promises
John 16:23 "In that day you will not question Me about anything. Truly, truly, I say to you, if you ask the Father for anything in My name, He will give it to you. 24 "Until now you have asked for nothing in My name ; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be made full. 25 "These things I have spoken to you in figurative language ; an hour is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language, but will tell you plainly of the Father. 26 "In that day you will ask in My name, and I do not say to you that I will request of the Father on your behalf ; 27 for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came forth from the Father. 28 "I came forth from the Father and have come into the world ; I am leaving the world again and going to the Father."

[Zant Law]

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Why would anyone want to pray through Mary when Christ gives you a direct line to our Father?

Prayer Promises
John 16:23 "In that day you will not question Me about anything. Truly, truly, I say to you, if you ask the Father for anything in My name, He will give it to you. 24 "Until now you have asked for nothing in My name ; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be made full. 25 "These things I have spoken to you in figurative language ; an hour is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language, but will tell you plainly of the Father. 26 "In that day you will ask in My name, and I do not say to you that I will request of the Father on your behalf ; 27 for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came forth from the Father. 28 "I came forth from the Father and have come into the world ; I am leaving the world again and going to the Father."

2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not tolerate sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, will accumulate teachers for themselves because they have an itch to hear something new. 4 They will turn away from hearing the truth and will turn aside to myths.

[chestertonrules]

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Why would anyone want to pray through Mary when Christ gives you a direct line to our Father?

 

Because we believe the bible when it says the the prayers of the righteous are powerful and effective.  Some protestants have rejected the communion of the saints, which is a shame. 

Martin Luther didn't even go that far!

One should honor Mary as she herself wished and as she expressed it in the Magnificat. She praised God for his deeds. How then can we praise her? The true honor of Mary is the honor of God, the praise of God's grace . . . Mary is nothing for the sake of herself, but for the sake of Christ . . . Mary does not wish that we come to her, but through her to God. (Martin Luther:  Explanation of the Magnificat, 1521).

[Fat]

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Because we believe the bible when it says the the prayers of the righteous are powerful and effective.  Some protestants have rejected the communion of the saints, which is a shame. 

Martin Luther didn't even go that far!

One should honor Mary as she herself wished and as she expressed it in the Magnificat. She praised God for his deeds. How then can we praise her? The true honor of Mary is the honor of God, the praise of God's grace . . . Mary is nothing for the sake of herself, but for the sake of Christ . . . Mary does not wish that we come to her, but through her to God. (Martin Luther:  Explanation of the Magnificat, 1521).

In John 16 Christ tells us to ask in His name, where in the Bible does say to ask in Mary's name? Show me the John 16 (any scripture) that refers to Mary.

Christ is giving you such an opportunity to communicate directly with the Father and you turn your back on it! Or is it that the church only recognizes one holy father, the pope.

There is a Catholic channel on cable TV the Spends an hour every Sunday showing 20 to 25 nuns repeating the following:

Hail Mary, full of grace.
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou amongst women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.


Over and over. If it wasn't being broadcast on TV I would say no big deal.

matthew 6:5 "Whenever you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites, because they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by people. I assure you: They've got their reward! 6 But when you pray, go into your private room, shut your door, and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. 7 When you pray, don't babble like the idolaters, since they imagine they'll be heard for their many words. 8 Don't be like them, because your Father knows the things you need before you ask Him.

[chestertonrules]

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In John 16 Christ tells us to ask in His name, where in the Bible does say to ask in Mary's name? Show me the John 16 (any scripture) that refers to Mary.

Christ is giving you such an opportunity to communicate directly with the Father and you turn your back on it! Or is it that the church only recognizes one holy father, the pope.

There is a Catholic channel on cable TV the Spends an hour every Sunday showing 20 to 25 nuns repeating the following:

Hail Mary, full of grace.
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou amongst women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.


Over and over. If it wasn't being broadcast on TV I would say no big deal.

matthew 6:5 "Whenever you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites, because they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by people. I assure you: They've got their reward! 6 But when you pray, go into your private room, shut your door, and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. 7 When you pray, don't babble like the idolaters, since they imagine they'll be heard for their many words. 8 Don't be like them, because your Father knows the things you need before you ask Him.

The Rosary is not vane repitition.  It is a prayer of the gospel.

The bible tells us to seek the prayers of the righteous.  Do you?

[Fat]

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The Rosary is not vane repitition.  It is a prayer of the gospel.

The bible tells us to seek the prayers of the righteous.  Do you?

6 But when you pray, go into your private room, shut your door, and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

I can see where that verse is so hard to understand.

I seek the groaning of the Spirit, do you?

Romans 8:26-28, "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit Itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And He that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because He maketh intercession for the saints according the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are called according to His purpose."

[chestertonrules]

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6 But when you pray, go into your private room, shut your door, and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

I can see where that verse is so hard to understand.

I seek the groaning of the Spirit, do you?

Romans 8:26-28, "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit Itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And He that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because He maketh intercession for the saints according the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are called according to His purpose."

There are many ways to pray, including intercession as Paul points out.  Jesus also said to pray like this widow, with persistance:

Luke 18
18 Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up. 2 He said: “In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared what people thought. 3 And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, ‘Grant me justice against my adversary.’

4 “For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, ‘Even though I don’t fear God or care what people think, 5 yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won’t eventually come and attack me!’”