A conversation With A Jehovah's Witness

[truth]

• 

I have to agree with the JW. His argument makes sense. The trinity argument is totally confusing and the Scriptures you use actually argue the fact that Jesus is not Almighty. Read the Bible cover to cover and you will never find the idea that Jesus is Almighty God.

[JB Horn]

• 

I have to agree with the JW. His argument makes sense. The trinity argument is totally confusing and the Scriptures you use actually argue the fact that Jesus is not Almighty. Read the Bible cover to cover and you will never find the idea that Jesus is Almighty God.

I have read the Bible cover to cover many times and find no confusion in the Godhead as one. Christ is not the archangel Michael as the JW's teach. Don't lose your soul on something this basic.

[bibleteach]

• 

Must agree also with the JW's on this. If you read the Bible you will never find Jesus claiming to be Almighty God. The idea of a trinity does not exist. Almighty God cannot die, so Jesus had to die for his ransom to be justified. If he were Almighty God and could not die, that would make the ransom invalid based on God's perfect Justice. The trinity actually is a false pagan belief adopted by Emperor Constantine. Anyone who believes such a thing is definitely fooling themselves. It's pretty clear just from Jesus own words.

[Fat]

• 

Hello bibleteach

We have a thread on the Trinity going. Do you idenify yoursekf as a member of the JW?

http://biblediscussion.org/index.php/topic,59.0.html

Peace
Fat

[JB Horn]

• 

Must agree also with the JW's on this. If you read the Bible you will never find Jesus claiming to be Almighty God. The idea of a trinity does not exist. Almighty God cannot die, so Jesus had to die for his ransom to be justified. If he were Almighty God and could not die, that would make the ransom invalid based on God's perfect Justice. The trinity actually is a false pagan belief adopted by Emperor Constantine. Anyone who believes such a thing is definitely fooling themselves. It's pretty clear just from Jesus own words.

"The foremost angel, both in power and authority, is the archangel, Jesus Christ, also called Michael."  -The Watchtower, November 1, 1995, p. 8

Do you agree with the Watchtower that Christ is Michael?

IHS
JB

[Bob]

• 

Emmanuel, … God with us. (Matt. 1:23 )
Will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth? behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee. (2 Chr. 6:18 ) The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth. (John 1:14 ) Great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh. (1 Tim. 3:16 )
God hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds. (Heb 1:2 )
The first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, … came Jesus and stood in the midst. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. After eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them. Then saith [Jesus] to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. Thomas … said, My Lord and my God. (John 20:19 , 20 , 26-28 ) Unto us a Son is given: the mighty God. (Isa. 9:6 )

[cwinn]

• 

Monotheism for example can describe the Bible truth that there is one true God. Psalm 83:18 "That people may know that you whose name is Jehovah you are the most high over all the earth." One can read the scripture and cite many where God is seen to be higher than angels, man and Jesus.

The belief in many gods or more specifically triune gods is not a Bible teaching but stems from Babylonian and Egyptian religions.

[fredjames]

• 

Brethren, generally speaking as many of you have learned the Holy Scriptures that the only true GOD the FATHER is 'LIGHT', 'Invisible', 'and art in secret'. And the only one who have seen and able to see HIM, is HIS SON. The SON is the LORD from Heaven, the Word who became flesh, named JESUS of Nazareth, bringing us 'grace' and 'truth', in order to take away the sins of this world in redemption. Therefore all mankind may be reconciled with GOD once again as children.

Since the only true GOD is invisible, HE in the beginning created 'someone' as HIS image. Or the 'someone' probably lived HIS image without fail since the beginning. Because henceforth, by and through and for this 'someone' again, the only true GOD created all other things, in Heaven and on earth. Therefore all creation, in Heaven or on earth, belongs to that 'someone', and that someone is God over them, yet nevertheless still subjected to the FATHER. 

(KJV) Hebrews 1:

2. Hath in these last days spoken unto us by HIS SON, whom HE hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also HE made the worlds;
3. Who being the brightness of HIS GLORY, and the express image of HIS person, and upholding all things by the word of HIS power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the MAJESTY on High;

(ESV) Colossians 1:

15. He is the image of the invisible GOD, the firstborn of all creation.
16. For by Him all things were created, in Heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities - all things were created through Him and for Him.
17. And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

1 Corinthians 15:

47. The first man is of the earth, earthly: the second man is the LORD from Heaven.

(ESV) John 1:

1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with GOD, and the Word was God.
2. He was in the beginning with GOD.
3. All things were made through Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made.
4. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
5. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
6. There was a man sent from GOD, whose name was John.
7. He came as a witness, to bear witness about the Light, that all might believe through him.
8. He was not the Light, but came to bear witness about the Light.
9. The true Light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world.
10. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, yet the world(Gentiles) did not know Him.
11. He came to His own(Jews), and His own people did not receive Him.
12. But to all who did receive Him, who believed in His name, He gave the right to become the children of GOD,
13. who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of GOD.
14. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen His Glory, Glory as of the only SON from the FATHER, full of grace and truth.
15. (John bore witness about Him, and cried out, "This He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me ranks before me.' ")
16. And from His fullness we have all received, grace upon grace.
17. For the Law was given through Moses, grace and truth came through JESUS CHRIST.
18. No one has never seen GOD; the only God, who is at the FATHER's side, HE has made Him known.
 
(ESV) Romans 9:

5. To them belong the patriarch, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the CHRIST who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.

Hebrews 1:

8. But unto the SON HE(GOD the FATHER) saith, "Thy throne, O God(the SON), is forever and ever: a Sceptre of righteousness is the Sceptre of Thy Kingdom.
9. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God(the SON), even thy GOD(the FATHER), hath anointed Thee with the oil of gladness above Thy fellows.
10. And Thou, Lord(the SON), in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the Heavens are the works of thine hands.  

[Fat]

• 

Brethren, generally speaking as many of you have learned the Holy Scriptures that the only true GOD the FATHER is 'LIGHT', 'Invisible', 'and art in secret'. And the only one who have seen and able to see HIM, is HIS SON. The SON is the LORD from Heaven, the Word who became flesh, named JESUS of Nazareth, bringing us 'grace' and 'truth', in order to take away the sins of this world in redemption. Therefore all mankind may be reconciled with GOD once again as children.

Since the only true GOD is invisible, HE in the beginning created 'someone' as HIS image. Or the 'someone' probably lived HIS image without fail since the beginning. Because henceforth, by and through and for this 'someone' again, the only true GOD created all other things, in Heaven and on earth. Therefore all creation, in Heaven or on earth, belongs to that 'someone', and that someone is God over them, yet nevertheless still subjected to the FATHER. 

(KJV) Hebrews 1:

2. Hath in these last days spoken unto us by HIS SON, whom HE hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also HE made the worlds;
3. Who being the brightness of HIS GLORY, and the express image of HIS person, and upholding all things by the word of HIS power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the MAJESTY on High;

(ESV) Colossians 1:

15. He is the image of the invisible GOD, the firstborn of all creation.
16. For by Him all things were created, in Heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities - all things were created through Him and for Him.
17. And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

1 Corinthians 15:

47. The first man is of the earth, earthly: the second man is the LORD from Heaven.

(ESV) John 1:

1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with GOD, and the Word was God.
2. He was in the beginning with GOD.
3. All things were made through Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made.
4. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
5. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
6. There was a man sent from GOD, whose name was John.
7. He came as a witness, to bear witness about the Light, that all might believe through him.
8. He was not the Light, but came to bear witness about the Light.
9. The true Light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world.
10. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, yet the world(Gentiles) did not know Him.
11. He came to His own(Jews), and His own people did not receive Him.
12. But to all who did receive Him, who believed in His name, He gave the right to become the children of GOD,
13. who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of GOD.
14. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen His Glory, Glory as of the only SON from the FATHER, full of grace and truth.
15. (John bore witness about Him, and cried out, "This He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me ranks before me.' ")
16. And from His fullness we have all received, grace upon grace.
17. For the Law was given through Moses, grace and truth came through JESUS CHRIST.
18. No one has never seen GOD; the only God, who is at the FATHER's side, HE has made Him known.
 
(ESV) Romans 9:

5. To them belong the patriarch, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the CHRIST who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.

Hebrews 1:

8. But unto the SON HE(GOD the FATHER) saith, "Thy throne, O God(the SON), is forever and ever: a Sceptre of righteousness is the Sceptre of Thy Kingdom.
9. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God(the SON), even thy GOD(the FATHER), hath anointed Thee with the oil of gladness above Thy fellows.
10. And Thou, Lord(the SON), in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the Heavens are the works of thine hands.

They use the NWT as their only scripture source. Subtle differences like him John 1:1 reads “ the word was a god.”
By simply adding the”a” and putting “god “ in lower case they change the whole meaning of the New Testament.

[macuser]

• 

They use the NWT as their only scripture source. Subtle differences like him John 1:1 reads “ the word was a god.”
By simply adding the”a” and putting “god “ in lower case they change the whole meaning of the New Testament.

Don't forget it complicates the issue when they believe Christ was, is, Michael the Archangel.

[fredjames]

• 

Michael the angel, for all i know in Scripture, defended with his angels GOD's Kingdom in Heaven, from satan and his angels who waged war against them.

And he who went to rescue the LORD, who was held by an angel of a nation, preventing Him from getting to Prophet Daniel sooner with the revelation of the end days, even our time.

Also the one who had a dispute with satan in regards to Moses' body.

Anything i am missing out, brethren....?

[macuser]

• 

Michael the angel, for all i know in Scripture, defended with his angels GOD's Kingdom in Heaven, from satan and his angels who waged war against them.

And he who went to rescue the LORD, who was held by an angel of a nation, preventing Him from getting to Prophet Daniel sooner with the revelation of the end days, even our time.

Also the one who had a dispute with satan in regards to Moses' body.

Anything i am missing out, brethren....?

Yeah there’s one problem, and it is why don’t like discussing scripture with JW’s, they believe that interpretation of the Bible can only be made by the Watchtower. This is similar the Catholics only allowing interpretation of scriptures by the Vatican .

Mac

[fredjames]

• 

They use the NWT as their only scripture source. Subtle differences like him John 1:1 reads “ the word was a god.”
By simply adding the”a” and putting “god “ in lower case they change the whole meaning of the New Testament.

Let us together refer to the first Bible translated from Greek to English, perhaps word to word from Greek and explanation of the translator along the verses as well.

(Wycliffe Bible, WYC) John 1:

1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was at GOD, and GOD was the Word. [In the beginning was the Word, that is, GOD's SON, and the Word was at GOD, and GOD was the Word.]
2. This was in the beginning at GOD.
3. All things were made by Him, and without Him was made nothing[nought], that thing that was made.

And this is what Apostle Peter said to the church to be awake and alert about 'counterfeits' and 'imposters' among them misinterpreting the New Testament doctrine entrusted to the chosen Apostles by the LORD. And as clearly he himself have gone through all of Apostle Paul's epistles apparently, in order to testify on behalf, his credibility as fellow Apostle for the LORD JESUS CHRIST.
 
2 Peter 3:

16. As and in all his epistles he speaketh in them of these things, in which be some hard things to understand, which unwise and unstable men deprave [As and in all epistles he speaking in them of these things; in which be some hard things in understanding, the which unwise, or untaught, and unstable men deprave], as also they do other Scriptures, to their own perdition.
17. Therefore ye, brethren, before-writting keep yourselves, lest ye be deceived by error of unwise men, and fall away from your own firmness. [Therefore ye, brethren, before-writing keep yourselves, lest ye over-led, or deceived, by error of unwise men, fall away from your own firmness.]
18. But wax ye in the grace and the knowing of our LORD JESUS CHRIST and our Saviour, to Him be Glory now and into the day of everlastingness. Amen.

2 John 1:

8. See ye yourselves, lest ye lose the things that ye have wrought, [but] that ye receive full meed;
9. witting that each man that goeth before [witting that each man that goeth away], and dwelleth not in the teaching of CHRIST, hath not GOD. He that dwelleth in the teaching [of CHRIST], hath both the SON and the FATHER.
10. If any man cometh to you, and bringeth not this teaching, do not ye receive him into your house, neither say to him, Hail.
11. For he that saith to him, Hail, communeth with his evil works. Lo! I before-said to you, that ye be not confounded in the day of our LORD JESUS CHRIST.

[fredjames]

• 

Yeah there’s one problem, and it is why don’t like discussing scripture with JW’s, they believe that interpretation of the Bible can only be made by the Watchtower. This is similar the Catholics only allowing interpretation of scriptures by the Vatican .

Mac

If their only one GOD, Jehovah HIMSELF saith to HIS SON, in Hebrews 1:8&9, that, 'O God' and 'Therefore God', and 'LORD', referring to the SON in the presence of all the angels in Heaven. And we as born again and born from above, who were baptized in the name of the FATHER and of the SON and of the HOLY GHOST, born of the HOLY GHOST and are ghost, by His Help we are witnessing Scripture declaring so.....

Therefore they are only fighting against GOD in regards to HIS SON, and HIS declared Words in regards, and not us.

JESUS replied to the devil;

(WYC) Matthew 4:

4. Which answered, and said to him, Not only in bread liveth man, but in each word that cometh forth of GOD's mouth. [Which answering said to him, it is written,  A man liveth not in bread alone, but in every word that cometh forth from the mouth of GOD.]

Therefore brethren, we are not to greet them at all such 'unwise' and 'unstable', men's believers. But as the church we must inform the gathering to pray for these astray believers. And also pray for those who should minister unto them the truth, that they will turn back while there is time. As the Apostle said that when one has astray from the truth, we are to persuade them back. And it is terrible for one who have tasted CHRIST and turn away to the doctrines of demons.

Pray therefore church together in oneness to the matter out of grace been shown to you, therefore show grace unto others in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST!